From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE3DC7EE2D for ; Thu, 25 May 2023 16:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S240750AbjEYQHK (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 May 2023 12:07:10 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:51280 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S240624AbjEYQHG (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 May 2023 12:07:06 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-xb4a.google.com (mail-yb1-xb4a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b4a]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFD12E47 for ; Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb4a.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-ba8cf175f5bso1669435276.0 for ; Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20221208; t=1685030822; x=1687622822; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=T8fhdJsa5NorDsEqTWIJQ5b4Ve27T8A/3D8mN23h+AM=; b=FEqq2WYT2bpFD+1TtSHkaFzNdRiEuyI2g6NACjIvhMwGd2nTXz/TFAkSgH9Ujas6q/ vhfG2wZKYTJDUOpnLW2+ofbeXlQQzMc4kCX+fmSU72PlK4P1Bu6ChRJwig3K6o+kmK9V pCl4CF26O5Po2Isyv/JlTTvFCsfs3ZUrFwA7UHCTWbISgu9JRVShkNuOUaec2GLwo+qR 9KOOx1CsOYaN5w2VTeTg1ACrMvUsp1nWuR5WaKwUiyP0rqYNcgG1cqc/7vdfOhawEkwt dDqOiNZlzeyBYZO39XTCtpGesfMZs3DSR4tffu8EiIq8HLxLRNoWCQV/DwcUzn5RT3NK ujWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1685030822; x=1687622822; h=cc:to:from:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=T8fhdJsa5NorDsEqTWIJQ5b4Ve27T8A/3D8mN23h+AM=; b=MxWJMTvQxZg/2ml4X/tZ6SmS1PsXn97ArCb0VH420v4mP9/z09VAg94g72r04bPwYB Qh+trgjldRVlq7TjANAZUH/vlakwVTYKCBR/JXrzTGB24ZsqbGkF4opOXVg/Jt6HlIRs n0mdPws7cgRwAxLKM4wOPRFF+VXS7PO81xXq4PW18G9HOeI948bQIlKdOohlNH0Z6kMq wE1yH4xBiEIK1fpdkun/rGUO/siyQ9bOD7ZDrChdzqOhNlFUeU+1pc1qT5YN+SnhI1HV LtwkaPHm5ovJOsU2EKrlMGlt74gB4NtUltnOSv9Njnaf1Q+wlLps7sfsawj70TGYB0Zd /Blg== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDz5uDsYOh4Qgdfc9KAAE7dBrskKdeEAlxJLYjrD/ntp4snaRE9h 8TvpHPGcjj5VQmtz/pl4UWcrRq8MPj4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6yBYNFZuYhfNGO52o3ys/I0sQ5pEx4h3FPL/IsVNBvdz1hiS3BsLpfaNj0iWMqAGXV//6VIasdS2w= X-Received: from zagreus.c.googlers.com ([fda3:e722:ac3:cc00:7f:e700:c0a8:5c37]) (user=seanjc job=sendgmr) by 2002:a25:6584:0:b0:ba8:381b:f764 with SMTP id z126-20020a256584000000b00ba8381bf764mr2233557ybb.3.1685030821985; Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 09:07:00 -0700 In-Reply-To: <7cb6c4c28c077bb9f866c2d795e918610e77d49f.camel@intel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20230505152046.6575-1-mic@digikod.net> <93726a7b9498ec66db21c5792079996d5fed5453.camel@intel.com> <7cb6c4c28c077bb9f866c2d795e918610e77d49f.camel@intel.com> Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 0/9] Hypervisor-Enforced Kernel Integrity From: Sean Christopherson To: Rick P Edgecombe Cc: "mic@digikod.net" , "dave.hansen@linux.intel.com" , "bp@alien8.de" , "keescook@chromium.org" , "hpa@zytor.com" , "mingo@redhat.com" , "tglx@linutronix.de" , "pbonzini@redhat.com" , "wanpengli@tencent.com" , "vkuznets@redhat.com" , "kvm@vger.kernel.org" , "qemu-devel@nongnu.org" , "liran.alon@oracle.com" , "marian.c.rotariu@gmail.com" , Alexander Graf , John S Andersen , "madvenka@linux.microsoft.com" , "ssicleru@bitdefender.com" , "yuanyu@google.com" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "tgopinath@microsoft.com" , "jamorris@linux.microsoft.com" , "linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org" , "xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org" , "will@kernel.org" , "dev@lists.cloudhypervisor.org" , "mdontu@bitdefender.com" , "linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-hyperv@vger.kernel.org" , "virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org" , "nicu.citu@icloud.com" , "ztarkhani@microsoft.com" , "x86@kernel.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org On Thu, May 25, 2023, Rick P Edgecombe wrote: > I wonder if it might be a good idea to POC the guest side before > settling on the KVM interface. Then you can also look at the whole > thing and judge how much usage it would get for the different options > of restrictions. As I said earlier[*], IMO the control plane logic needs to live in host userspace. I think any attempt to have KVM providen anything but the low level plumbing will suffer the same fate as CR4 pinning and XO memory. Iterating on an imperfect solution to incremently improve security is far, far easier to do in userspace, and far more likely to get merged. [*] https://lore.kernel.org/all/ZFUyhPuhtMbYdJ76@google.com