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From: Quentin Perret <qperret@google.com>
To: David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>
Cc: Fuad Tabba <tabba@google.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvmarm@lists.linux.dev, pbonzini@redhat.com,
	chenhuacai@kernel.org, mpe@ellerman.id.au, anup@brainfault.org,
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	aou@eecs.berkeley.edu, seanjc@google.com, brauner@kernel.org,
	willy@infradead.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org,
	xiaoyao.li@intel.com, yilun.xu@intel.com,
	chao.p.peng@linux.intel.com, jarkko@kernel.org,
	amoorthy@google.com, dmatlack@google.com,
	yu.c.zhang@linux.intel.com, isaku.yamahata@intel.com,
	mic@digikod.net, vbabka@suse.cz, vannapurve@google.com,
	ackerleytng@google.com, mail@maciej.szmigiero.name,
	michael.roth@amd.com, wei.w.wang@intel.com,
	liam.merwick@oracle.com, isaku.yamahata@gmail.com,
	kirill.shutemov@linux.intel.com, suzuki.poulose@arm.com,
	steven.price@arm.com, quic_eberman@quicinc.com,
	quic_mnalajal@quicinc.com, quic_tsoni@quicinc.com,
	quic_svaddagi@quicinc.com, quic_cvanscha@quicinc.com,
	quic_pderrin@quicinc.com, quic_pheragu@quicinc.com,
	catalin.marinas@arm.com, james.morse@arm.com,
	yuzenghui@huawei.com, oliver.upton@linux.dev, maz@kernel.org,
	will@kernel.org, keirf@google.com
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v1 00/26] KVM: Restricted mapping of guest_memfd at the host and pKVM/arm64 support
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2024 14:01:36 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Zd88wFzxgGEWrhSb@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <0951868c-911d-4879-bc79-14b5d3959462@redhat.com>

On Wednesday 28 Feb 2024 at 11:12:18 (+0100), David Hildenbrand wrote:
> > > So you don't need any guest_memfd games to protect from that -- and one
> > > doesn't have to travel back in time to have memory that isn't
> > > swappable/migratable and only comes in one page size.
> > > 
> > > [I'm not up-to-date which obscure corner-cases CCA requirement the s390x
> > > implementation cannot fulfill -- like replacing pages in page tables and
> > > such; I suspect pKVM also cannot cover all these corner-cases]
> > 
> > Thanks for this. I'll do some more reading on how things work with s390x.
> > 
> > Right, and of course, one key difference of course is that pKVM
> > doesn't encrypt anything, and only relies on stage-2 protection to
> > protect the guest.
> 
> I don't remember what exactly s390x does, but I recall that it might only
> encrypt the memory content as it transitions a page from secure to
> non-secure.
> 
> Something like that could also be implemented using pKVM (unless I am
> missing something), but it might not be that trivial, of course :)

One of the complicated aspects of having the host migrate pages like so
is for the hypervisor to make sure the content of the page has not been
tempered with when the new page is re-mapped in the guest. That means
having additional tracking in the hypervisor of pages that have been
encrypted and returned to the host, indexed by IPA, with something like
a 'checksum' of some sort, which is non-trivial to do securely from a
cryptographic PoV.

A simpler and secure way to do this is (I think) is to do
hypervisor-assisted migration. IOW, pKVM exposes a new migrate_page(ipa,
old_pa, new_pa) hypercall which Linux can call to migrate a page.
pKVM unmaps the new page from the host stage-2, unmap the old page from
guest stage-2, does the copy, wipes the old page, maps the pages in the
respective page-tables, and off we go. That way the content is never
visible to Linux and that avoids the problems I highlighted above by
construction. The downside is that it doesn't work for swapping, but
that is quite hard to do in general...

  reply	other threads:[~2024-02-28 14:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-02-22 16:10 [RFC PATCH v1 00/26] KVM: Restricted mapping of guest_memfd at the host and pKVM/arm64 support Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 01/26] KVM: Split KVM memory attributes into user and kernel attributes Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 02/26] KVM: Introduce kvm_gmem_get_pfn_locked(), which retains the folio lock Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 03/26] KVM: Add restricted support for mapping guestmem by the host Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:28   ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-26  8:58     ` Fuad Tabba
2024-02-26  9:57       ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-26 17:30         ` Fuad Tabba
2024-02-27  7:40           ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 04/26] KVM: Don't allow private attribute to be set if mapped by host Fuad Tabba
2024-04-17 23:27   ` Sean Christopherson
2024-04-18 10:54   ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 05/26] KVM: Don't allow private attribute to be removed for unmappable memory Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 06/26] KVM: Implement kvm_(read|/write)_guest_page for private memory slots Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 07/26] KVM: arm64: Turn llist of pinned pages into an rb-tree Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 08/26] KVM: arm64: Implement MEM_RELINQUISH SMCCC hypercall Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 09/26] KVM: arm64: Strictly check page type in MEM_RELINQUISH hypercall Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 10/26] KVM: arm64: Avoid unnecessary unmap walk " Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 11/26] KVM: arm64: Add initial support for KVM_CAP_EXIT_HYPERCALL Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 12/26] KVM: arm64: Allow userspace to receive SHARE and UNSHARE notifications Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 13/26] KVM: arm64: Create hypercall return handler Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 14/26] KVM: arm64: Refactor code around handling return from host to guest Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 15/26] KVM: arm64: Rename kvm_pinned_page to kvm_guest_page Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 16/26] KVM: arm64: Add a field to indicate whether the guest page was pinned Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 17/26] KVM: arm64: Do not allow changes to private memory slots Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 18/26] KVM: arm64: Skip VMA checks for slots without userspace address Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 19/26] KVM: arm64: Handle guest_memfd()-backed guest page faults Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 20/26] KVM: arm64: Track sharing of memory from protected guest to host Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 21/26] KVM: arm64: Mark a protected VM's memory as unmappable at initialization Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 22/26] KVM: arm64: Handle unshare on way back to guest entry rather than exit Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 23/26] KVM: arm64: Check that host unmaps memory unshared by guest Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 24/26] KVM: arm64: Add handlers for kvm_arch_*_set_memory_attributes() Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 25/26] KVM: arm64: Enable private memory support when pKVM is enabled Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 16:10 ` [RFC PATCH v1 26/26] KVM: arm64: Enable private memory kconfig for arm64 Fuad Tabba
2024-02-22 23:43 ` [RFC PATCH v1 00/26] KVM: Restricted mapping of guest_memfd at the host and pKVM/arm64 support Elliot Berman
2024-02-23  0:35   ` folio_mmapped Matthew Wilcox
2024-02-26  9:28     ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-02-26 21:14       ` folio_mmapped Elliot Berman
2024-02-27 14:59         ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-02-28 10:48           ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-02-28 11:11             ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-02-28 12:44               ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-02-28 13:00                 ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-02-28 13:34                   ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-02-28 18:43                     ` folio_mmapped Elliot Berman
2024-02-28 18:51                       ` Quentin Perret
2024-02-29 10:04                     ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-02-29 19:01                       ` folio_mmapped Fuad Tabba
2024-03-01  0:40                         ` folio_mmapped Elliot Berman
2024-03-01 11:16                           ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-04 12:53                             ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-03-04 20:22                               ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-01 11:06                         ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-04 12:36                       ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-03-04 19:04                         ` folio_mmapped Sean Christopherson
2024-03-04 20:17                           ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-04 21:43                             ` folio_mmapped Elliot Berman
2024-03-04 21:58                               ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-19  9:47                                 ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-03-19  9:54                                   ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-18 17:06                             ` folio_mmapped Vishal Annapurve
2024-03-18 22:02                               ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-18 23:07                                 ` folio_mmapped Vishal Annapurve
2024-03-19  0:10                                   ` folio_mmapped Sean Christopherson
2024-03-19 10:26                                     ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-19 13:19                                       ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-19 14:31                                       ` folio_mmapped Will Deacon
2024-03-19 23:54                                         ` folio_mmapped Elliot Berman
2024-03-22 16:36                                           ` Will Deacon
2024-03-22 18:46                                             ` Elliot Berman
2024-03-27 19:31                                               ` Will Deacon
2024-03-22 17:52                                         ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-22 21:21                                           ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-26 22:04                                             ` folio_mmapped Elliot Berman
2024-03-27 17:50                                               ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-27 19:34                                           ` folio_mmapped Will Deacon
2024-03-28  9:06                                             ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-28 10:10                                               ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-03-28 10:32                                                 ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-28 10:58                                                   ` folio_mmapped Quentin Perret
2024-03-28 11:41                                                     ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-03-29 18:38                                                       ` folio_mmapped Vishal Annapurve
2024-04-04  0:15                                             ` folio_mmapped Sean Christopherson
2024-03-19 15:04                                       ` folio_mmapped Sean Christopherson
2024-03-22 17:16                                         ` folio_mmapped David Hildenbrand
2024-02-26  9:03   ` [RFC PATCH v1 00/26] KVM: Restricted mapping of guest_memfd at the host and pKVM/arm64 support Fuad Tabba
2024-02-23 12:00 ` Alexandru Elisei
2024-02-26  9:05   ` Fuad Tabba
2024-02-26  9:47 ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-27  9:37   ` Fuad Tabba
2024-02-27 14:41     ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-27 14:49       ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-28  9:57       ` Fuad Tabba
2024-02-28 10:12         ` David Hildenbrand
2024-02-28 14:01           ` Quentin Perret [this message]
2024-02-29  9:51             ` David Hildenbrand

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