From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from AS8PR04CU009.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-westeuropeazon11011045.outbound.protection.outlook.com [52.101.70.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B635E3AEF4F; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:43:02 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=fail smtp.client-ip=52.101.70.45 ARC-Seal:i=3; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1780911785; cv=fail; b=H8AJ1Mt+YzAEYsR3GDFHeEHiewXdG9GL52+SDC8PJfJJNGNQ9+IEUM7wnGIiQV59hQQFw6bsrgFaMJ6ef6P3zsJUeoRoM3lvk4NsBNsibJ8qbE7bD0CExUcYXEQdrVeRPYfnJUcisp1xiBcupCDwpHeawiyb2MtpX40NVA1DcrA= ARC-Message-Signature:i=3; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1780911785; c=relaxed/simple; bh=JyWXfcAh1GE65se3x7HflZ6ewdWvhKPJGg/9WO8chZA=; h=Message-ID:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To: Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=MWdKM9QUw2eFjkyuyGoELs/Vpc67vJ5uUADywUpULhKsomUjWF3LSsVKenbJt9BWXjpMHDhaKG5sJpGggvbIwWlamIT6T6TeBBUJgmnKIfANyQBxYTxCXaaLTrO9gRZ/si782v0maFCE4jv6LjIGPmyUx2h2NO3JqLBEc+Mruyg= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=3; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=arm.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=arm.com; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arm.com header.i=@arm.com header.b=Foayqdja; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arm.com header.i=@arm.com header.b=Foayqdja; arc=fail smtp.client-ip=52.101.70.45 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=arm.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=arm.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arm.com header.i=@arm.com header.b="Foayqdja"; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=arm.com header.i=@arm.com header.b="Foayqdja" ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=pass; b=JtxCcByXIHEk6ioI1wDMPvYgaI7TIi+UIL574XPXl10e70tIy0oVHp2I+DzJhW1eyJuwH22AiBur77uYAiPmyETvML+rinvlq4eNKF1LRT9SBSGhKhQI72H36wLbQhBYpH8dqRA7OR09X1GTdV5Nm3Q/OCRVwjgmkwgOfE+gwDqiSPpc3Ic1ZW8RK8Jnci0rGzklAJ9008RL6jkV/QluVoidJPInyKZu1Ak3fiZXLymmG9MTBAQeHQVpYwnm8zOazUZypTqdTm35H+RllBbiXfq7sn5P3zw2hbvNkEqEJN8LaVC72E7H9rN4LHoE/oNiiuQ8LIwdJZebxknvbwvnNA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=yCNBeIBkpn6UT4+PIgk+xjWkTbjyGczmH4YzzZub104=; b=c6dq6DOz2aoODHVmfcek7wUCjiHY8I3zuobQfRMYl5Ru/I8u9uXhoKmggw0tmBlRRPq0g8SX6pYbrVxmjYdIvsE6bdJPqsri5/DwYbSCx/UVn80eOoHnmfHSoCNqjRCSmg7vDOaNDf+AugJ2AwLBrO9KEe4WRg6eBiqRIMp023BYBWGks6f8H3jhRlioguzOPANDzFUL4Vb07QYQ4tNCv3Cn+Gm0+eS0cI1UpeFUGZVrYDKkWz9gJjWlG0PDgcg4DvzMOVZOhaoTQGHRzmMbf6TMiA+myegHmiS1/x2E9CtqlJsCgo94uzmXlaMdNghEyCUUhgEogS0UhOeV93f7cg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass (sender ip is 4.158.2.129) smtp.rcpttodomain=redhat.com smtp.mailfrom=arm.com; dmarc=pass (p=none sp=none pct=100) action=none header.from=arm.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=arm.com; arc=pass (0 oda=1 ltdi=1 spf=[1,1,smtp.mailfrom=arm.com] dkim=[1,1,header.d=arm.com] dmarc=[1,1,header.from=arm.com]) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arm.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=yCNBeIBkpn6UT4+PIgk+xjWkTbjyGczmH4YzzZub104=; b=Foayqdja0X/CZw/kVm/a4w8xEBRTT/J7muFxf/eJQZ530lL2MODsdKQqRuUZmllHEFkuy+1URJr9M3OlSJrCeORR7WrMoRvGUTsNIFyWv0v5Qq4/jMJth+YTQo9W0EJk/3NU6LK5JCFl5UUCJcfmip0EWO/RYxmxpVOrHJ5PCvg= Received: from CWLP265CA0419.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:400:1b6::14) by DU2PR08MB10132.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:49a::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.92.12; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:42:53 +0000 Received: from AMS0EPF000001AC.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:400:1b6:cafe::d) by CWLP265CA0419.outlook.office365.com (2603:10a6:400:1b6::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.92.12 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:42:53 +0000 X-MS-Exchange-Authentication-Results: spf=pass (sender IP is 4.158.2.129) smtp.mailfrom=arm.com; dkim=pass (signature was verified) header.d=arm.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=arm.com; Received-SPF: Pass (protection.outlook.com: domain of arm.com designates 4.158.2.129 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=4.158.2.129; helo=outbound-uk1.az.dlp.m.darktrace.com; pr=C Received: from outbound-uk1.az.dlp.m.darktrace.com (4.158.2.129) by AMS0EPF000001AC.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.167.16.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.113.7 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:42:52 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=l5s++dTbnqk5gabcqqFSM6xbNrn7CNEidPfjMbndA4eP0GnpeUMDaSi/uNePHms/7Y3F2+IKj0EJl4WPxwX2zZjj0U/jM8IvC8kW2CpQ82SUV+/3/H6jB5z7BQ4A5eBLg9q/wIhQ3YktRgeD2ekM2RompRNzJvpLR99MLvXK9mj0OaQlMKDkYK9f9jCAtM1426L0SSVcTlAYEfJI0D3CiTet1Yh2hd2EY7noi3RBgL+V66zy14jNjIbJNUS/Cq8Ntpi58w4u9gSIi3nLH3Kq29dU4V5dWygUvXeWh4dz9IRaafYCI4VJwRi2EaifbO4WaqG+0hGl06zsRg+Gb6cLBg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=yCNBeIBkpn6UT4+PIgk+xjWkTbjyGczmH4YzzZub104=; b=OVERTzP/ggUe2Jce1VZmN734iZbQVHjKQrE9PptF6PkaBD8qp6AeAr/x+VK09Hwk6lRF79gwP70lKetQHdpLLi2HKhskN42I6qM877GOiLDDlikv6YWKkkYm163hMs0O1587tgFpWLNdI717wMetg7oBjNxm6XB4OK8C+HaSsC2mxsKpqVw9dhp4vWI8bUpbB2YAfvMI3Iq2luX2maOW1G42MSG7dAZ9//GdLQdC1lgPwlQ0V+XszweAd+h+/0fTf8hEuc66gry7wDpYeLa92DJ9ETy0KXvLXM3Ex650wU80DagLmjOztoo92bNZNjibKEph5+boDJ8M1OipuG9ZLA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=arm.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=arm.com; dkim=pass header.d=arm.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=arm.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=yCNBeIBkpn6UT4+PIgk+xjWkTbjyGczmH4YzzZub104=; b=Foayqdja0X/CZw/kVm/a4w8xEBRTT/J7muFxf/eJQZ530lL2MODsdKQqRuUZmllHEFkuy+1URJr9M3OlSJrCeORR7WrMoRvGUTsNIFyWv0v5Qq4/jMJth+YTQo9W0EJk/3NU6LK5JCFl5UUCJcfmip0EWO/RYxmxpVOrHJ5PCvg= Authentication-Results-Original: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; Received: from PAWPR08MB10975.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:46e::7) by DB9PR08MB8458.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:3d6::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.92.12; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:41:48 +0000 Received: from PAWPR08MB10975.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3c7a:9a64:14bc:ce15]) by PAWPR08MB10975.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3c7a:9a64:14bc:ce15%7]) with mapi id 15.21.0092.011; Mon, 8 Jun 2026 09:41:48 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2026 10:41:47 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v14 26/44] arm64: RMI: Allow populating initial contents To: Steven Price , Gavin Shan , kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvmarm@lists.linux.dev Cc: Catalin Marinas , Marc Zyngier , Will Deacon , James Morse , Oliver Upton , Zenghui Yu , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Joey Gouly , Alexandru Elisei , Christoffer Dall , Fuad Tabba , linux-coco@lists.linux.dev, Ganapatrao Kulkarni , Shanker Donthineni , Alper Gun , "Aneesh Kumar K . V" , Emi Kisanuki , Vishal Annapurve , WeiLin.Chang@arm.com, Lorenzo.Pieralisi2@arm.com References: <20260513131757.116630-1-steven.price@arm.com> <20260513131757.116630-27-steven.price@arm.com> <0c71b4b8-ad0b-4a24-9f4a-180b2aaacdb6@arm.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Suzuki K Poulose In-Reply-To: <0c71b4b8-ad0b-4a24-9f4a-180b2aaacdb6@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ClientProxiedBy: PA7P264CA0288.FRAP264.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:102:370::14) To PAWPR08MB10975.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:46e::7) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: kvm@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: PAWPR08MB10975:EE_|DB9PR08MB8458:EE_|AMS0EPF000001AC:EE_|DU2PR08MB10132:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 813b16d4-c25e-49b0-f04a-08dec5424f9a x-checkrecipientrouted: true NoDisclaimer: true X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Untrusted: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|366016|7416014|376014|6133799003|18002099003|22082099003|4143699003|11063799006|56012099006; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info-Original: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report-Untrusted: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:PAWPR08MB10975.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(1800799024)(366016)(7416014)(376014)(6133799003)(18002099003)(22082099003)(4143699003)(11063799006)(56012099006);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101; X-Exchange-RoutingPolicyChecked: jbJlIWq7Tti1HMTFP39HDYS6ESYREthIZMUwsK5mRAcZZyHmsx5rYlSz0ty+zxr70W4mcNJX3iJgML7Y+ltu4C2hGazhg+9gB49+28wX0v64bG+6HujEoLmUFh9JQ1o0XYXc9eJFCcFx26GEwGOUAPGqXuYnrXU95zRxRjl4djZyTZfbQOxVfgBE7wHsAtdeDxZhcAOx5kJSuYDqjGBX9pQw9piRJnQC7xYf+XoTHMfU8sA/LEFtrdwF5rh+wdt4FPng9HnmuxfguZnWe8GSBNeyH2odvAGlIohw5N43jPvVuxThUcNCjHkE2vZwt11t4B4kBlc4VgYu89S5sgmHmg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB9PR08MB8458 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStripped: AMS0EPF000001AC.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id-Prvs: 11c9c916-76af-4196-dcc8-08dec5422968 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|36860700016|35042699022|82310400026|376014|7416014|1800799024|14060799003|18002099003|22082099003|6133799003|4143699003|56012099006|11063799006; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:4.158.2.129;CTRY:GB;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:outbound-uk1.az.dlp.m.darktrace.com;PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(36860700016)(35042699022)(82310400026)(376014)(7416014)(1800799024)(14060799003)(18002099003)(22082099003)(6133799003)(4143699003)(56012099006)(11063799006);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: UEK1iCP2nr+/C2ZYltC1CCi7LUYCqK3OWdaOGG24uIR10400bLEb9Bwh6BBN75eWKF5QprwN8ZiiqpHc/ciYF2N/LWIkBFu9y7j6zhxXNEZoXbthp0WE6FXo+Fd54F6QjgGPSI7Vq4TQQtVMqruScu+Add2ZWd/okfjxx1RZGMUVMdsj3Bu0mH/sr9PzqC1LYU8QgQzYw9Bb3xUnA/ydZOQYTxqDaUqodnafoflDb4wvAQMGghYdCW6+v7DN+VJsPlVB6LNLepmwb9DUlQ4s0Vme5qF7UH6NWCeBsOLBi5ZW8m1c6PMj017RuiFoTAutcz3ETSfiqDWVBWMoULApI3v1BjmrmvsXsWtIiQkEl9JyJfhilC/Xs1Y4j2x+L4Zaz5j7nOSNHpIqI3br7P/SZqGputBwruKo0Ev/BcQB7P4WF+ild0tHpSQSt+UkaTCe X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Jun 2026 09:42:52.4388 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 813b16d4-c25e-49b0-f04a-08dec5424f9a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d;Ip=[4.158.2.129];Helo=[outbound-uk1.az.dlp.m.darktrace.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AMS0EPF000001AC.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DU2PR08MB10132 On 08/06/2026 10:36, Steven Price wrote: > On 28/05/2026 06:30, Gavin Shan wrote: >> Hi Steve, >> >> On 5/13/26 11:17 PM, Steven Price wrote: >>> The VMM needs to populate the realm with some data before starting (e.g. >>> a kernel and initrd). This is measured by the RMM and used as part of >>> the attestation later on. >>> >>> Signed-off-by: Steven Price ... >>> diff --git a/arch/arm64/kvm/rmi.c b/arch/arm64/kvm/rmi.c >>> index a89873a5eb77..209087bcf399 100644 >>> --- a/arch/arm64/kvm/rmi.c >>> +++ b/arch/arm64/kvm/rmi.c >>> @@ -486,6 +486,75 @@ void kvm_realm_unmap_range(struct kvm *kvm, >>> unsigned long start, >>>           realm_unmap_private_range(kvm, start, end, may_block); >>>   } >>>   +static int realm_data_map_init(struct kvm *kvm, unsigned long ipa, >>> +                   kvm_pfn_t dst_pfn, kvm_pfn_t src_pfn, >>> +                   unsigned long flags) >>> +{ >>> +    struct realm *realm = &kvm->arch.realm; >>> +    phys_addr_t rd = virt_to_phys(realm->rd); >>> +    phys_addr_t dst_phys, src_phys; >>> +    int ret; >>> + >>> +    dst_phys = __pfn_to_phys(dst_pfn); >>> +    src_phys = __pfn_to_phys(src_pfn); >>> + >>> +    if (rmi_delegate_page(dst_phys)) >>> +        return -ENXIO; >>> + >>> +    ret = rmi_rtt_data_map_init(rd, dst_phys, ipa, src_phys, flags); >>> +    if (RMI_RETURN_STATUS(ret) == RMI_ERROR_RTT) { >>> +        /* Create missing RTTs and retry */ >>> +        int level = RMI_RETURN_INDEX(ret); >>> + >>> +        KVM_BUG_ON(level == KVM_PGTABLE_LAST_LEVEL, kvm); >> >>         KVM_BUG_ON(level >= KVM_PGTABLE_LAST_LEVEL, kvm); > > Ack. > Thinking more about this, I guess a buggy VMM can trigger this by populating twice ? (level == KVM_PGTABLE_LAST_LEVEL). So, we should return the error back, than warning here and suppressing the error ? Suzuki