Re: [PATCH v4 2/9] vfio-iommufd: Create iommufd_access for noiommu devices

[Yi Liu <yi.l.liu@intel.com>]

On 2023/4/28 02:32, Alex Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 06:59:17 +0000
> "Liu, Yi L" <yi.l.liu@intel.com> wrote:
> 
[...]
>>
>> I'm not quite sure about it so far. For mdev devices, the device driver
>> may use vfio_pin_pages/vfio_dma_rw () to pin page. Hence such drivers
>> need to listen to dma_unmap() event. But for noiommu users, does the
>> device driver also participate in the page pin? At least for vfio-pci driver,
>> it does not, or maybe it will in the future when enabling noiommu
>> userspace to pin pages. It looks to me such userspace should order
>> the DMA before calling ioctl to unpin page instead of letting device
>> driver listen to unmap.
> 
> Whoa, noiommu is inherently unsafe an only meant to expose the vfio
> device interface for userspace drivers that are going to do unsafe
> things regardless.  Enabling noiommu to work with mdev, pin pages, or
> anything else should not be on our agenda.  Userspaces relying on niommu
> get the minimum viable interface and must impose a minuscule
> incremental maintenance burden.  The only reason we're spending so much
> effort on it here is to make iommufd noiommu support equivalent to
> group/container noiommu support.  We should stop at that.  Thanks,

btw. I asked a question in [1] to check if we should allow attach/detach
on noiommu devices. Jason has replied it. If in future noiommu userspace
can pin page, then such userspace will need to attach/detach ioas. So I
made cdev series[2] to allow attach ioas on noiommu devices. Supporting
it from cdev day-1 may avoid probing if attach/detach is supported or
not for specific devices when adding pin page for noiommu userspace.

But now, I think such a support will not in plan, is it? If so, will it
be better to disallow attach/detach on noiommu devices in patch [2]?

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/kvm/ZEa+khH0tUFStRMW@nvidia.com/
[2] https://lore.kernel.org/kvm/20230426150321.454465-21-yi.l.liu@intel.com/

-- 
Regards,
Yi Liu