Applications in general; Emacs

Applications in general; Emacs

[David O'Shea]

Hi all,

Are there any applications for ELKS which aren't in the source tree,
and is there a directory anywhere of applications for ELKS?

Is there any kind of Emacs available for ELKS?  I know there are lots
of small clones available that could possibly be ported, although I
don't know if any of them would work with small model.

Are there any editors for ELKS which can edit files larger than they
can fit into their memory?

Thanks in advance,
David

P.S. Apologies for forgetting to just send to the list directly in my
last email!

Re: Applications in general; Emacs

[Alan Cox]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:34:59 +0930
"David O'Shea" <dcoshea@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Are there any applications for ELKS which aren't in the source tree,
> and is there a directory anywhere of applications for ELKS?

Lots of small apps will build fine. It's just another Unixalike after all.

> Is there any kind of Emacs available for ELKS?  I know there are lots
> of small clones available that could possibly be ported, although I
> don't know if any of them would work with small model.

I don't know of an emacs style editor that uses disk based buffers. There
are vi style ones that do.
 
> Are there any editors for ELKS which can edit files larger than they
> can fit into their memory?

ed works fine 8)

Alan

Re: Applications in general; Emacs

[David O'Shea]

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Alan Cox <alan@llwyncelyn.cymru> wrote:
>> Are there any applications for ELKS which aren't in the source tree,
>> and is there a directory anywhere of applications for ELKS?
>
> Lots of small apps will build fine. It's just another Unixalike after all.

Oh yeah, it wouldn't be much fun if there wasn't any porting to do :)
https://github.com/stangelandcl/ersatz-emacs/ wasn't too hard to get
running, but it's a shame it doesn't recognize the enter key, I guess
I will need to dig into some termcap stuff!

If I get it or some other Emacs working properly, would the goal be
for it to go into elks.git/elkscmd, or is there a wiki page or
something I could add it to?

> I don't know of an emacs style editor that uses disk based buffers. There
> are vi style ones that do.

This is the first time anyone has ever given me a reason to think that
vi is superior to Emacs in some way, not that I want to start one of
those wars :)

Thanks!
David

Re: Applications in general; Emacs

[Alan Cox]

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 21:04:14 +0930
"David O'Shea" <dcoshea@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Alan Cox <alan@llwyncelyn.cymru> wrote:
> >> Are there any applications for ELKS which aren't in the source tree,
> >> and is there a directory anywhere of applications for ELKS?  
> >
> > Lots of small apps will build fine. It's just another Unixalike after all.  
> 
> Oh yeah, it wouldn't be much fun if there wasn't any porting to do :)
> https://github.com/stangelandcl/ersatz-emacs/ wasn't too hard to get
> running, but it's a shame it doesn't recognize the enter key, I guess
> I will need to dig into some termcap stuff!

Nice. I think I need to see if I can get that to fit on FUZIX 8).

There are btw some goodl libraries of buffer management code. The Joe
editor has a very nice architecture for this although joe itself is too
big for a 16bit machine. Joe uses lists of gap buffers, allowing each gap
buffer to be moved to/from disk as needed.

For the enter key check the termios setup carefully and see if you are
getting \r and \n confused somewhere ?

Alan

Re: Applications in general; Emacs

[David O'Shea]

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> For the enter key check the termios setup carefully and see if you are
> getting \r and \n confused somewhere ?

Yes, it was expecting Ctrl-M but was getting Ctrl-J.  I'm afraid I'm
not really familiar with this stuff, is this a difference between the
terminal that ELKS emulates and the terminals that other systems
emulate?

I see that the editor calls cfmakeraw(), which the man page on my
Linux system says disables translation between CR and LF, but that
doesn't seem to be telling me whether I should get one or the other.
Am I getting Ctrl-J because arch/i86/drivers/char/xt_key.c does this
near the end of keyboard_irq()?

I also noticed that some keys like Home and End don't work, I guess
that the editor is not receiving the sequence of characters it
expects.  What is the best way to work out what it's going to receive?
 I'm struggling to find a standard for how key sequences are encoded
using ANSI, all the documents I could find want to tell me what
sequences I can *send to* the terminal!  I'm not finding it that easy
to follow the code in xt_key.c either.

I notice the editor also gets Ctrl-C and Ctrl-Z.  Should it?

Thanks in advance,
David

Re: Applications in general; Emacs

[Alan Cox]

On Sat, 17 Jun 2017 21:56:25 +0930
"David O'Shea" <dcoshea@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 11:09 PM, Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
> > For the enter key check the termios setup carefully and see if you are
> > getting \r and \n confused somewhere ?  
> 
> Yes, it was expecting Ctrl-M but was getting Ctrl-J.  I'm afraid I'm
> not really familiar with this stuff, is this a difference between the
> terminal that ELKS emulates and the terminals that other systems
> emulate?
> 
> I see that the editor calls cfmakeraw(), which the man page on my
> Linux system says disables translation between CR and LF, but that
> doesn't seem to be telling me whether I should get one or the other.

It disables the translation - you get whatever the hardware sends which
is indeed hardware specific.

> Am I getting Ctrl-J because arch/i86/drivers/char/xt_key.c does this
> near the end of keyboard_irq()?

Yes but you might get ctrl-M from a device on a serial port. If you
disable translation you kind of own the problem.
 
> I also noticed that some keys like Home and End don't work, I guess
> that the editor is not receiving the sequence of characters it
> expects.  What is the best way to work out what it's going to receive?

Device specific. Most modern systems use either the VT100 or VT52
standards and applications would use termcap to look up the sequences
expected for key mappings.

>  I'm struggling to find a standard for how key sequences are encoded
> using ANSI, all the documents I could find want to tell me what
> sequences I can *send to* the terminal!  I'm not finding it that easy
> to follow the code in xt_key.c either.

Look up VT100, VT52. The key codes were AFAIK never standardised in ANSI,
so everyone just used the VT codes.

> I notice the editor also gets Ctrl-C and Ctrl-Z.  Should it?

That depends upon the terminal settings. You can opt not to, or to catch
^Z so you can suspend nicely for example.

Alan