Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Gregg Levine]

Hello!
I am looking to make use of the basic items that are part of an I80186
based system here. (I for Intel, even though that firm made the bad
decision to EOL and probably discontinue that line sometime ago.)

I thought it would be appropriate to make use of ELKS for it as
opposed to fabricating an RTOS for it from scratch. Granted this is
asking a heck of a lot of the features found on one such device, but
given the special nature of the I80186 and what ELKS is, it does make
sense in a strange sort of way.

-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
 messages in English in the Moscow subway."

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Ben Weiss]

Hi Gregg,

What machine even has a 186? I now it exist[s|ed], but never knew what it was used in, always guessed some embedded stuff.
Instruction set-wise, the 186 is compatible with 8086/88 (I think it may have one or 2 more instructions), you should be good there. 
The 8086 is the "lowest common denominator" of the x86 line, so really ELKS will ((should)) boot on any x86.
I'm pretty sure I downloaded some datasheets for the 186 off the net a while back. 
If the machine doesn't make use of PC or SIBO architecture, then you'll need to do some hacking, but it sounds like you know that already.

-Ben

--- On Sat, 4/26/08, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com>
> Subject: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?
> To: "ELKS" <linux-8086@vger.kernel.org>
> Date: Saturday, April 26, 2008, 10:05 AM
> Hello!
> I am looking to make use of the basic items that are part
> of an I80186
> based system here. (I for Intel, even though that firm made
> the bad
> decision to EOL and probably discontinue that line sometime
> ago.)
> 
> I thought it would be appropriate to make use of ELKS for
> it as
> opposed to fabricating an RTOS for it from scratch. Granted
> this is
> asking a heck of a lot of the features found on one such
> device, but
> given the special nature of the I80186 and what ELKS is, it
> does make
> sense in a strange sort of way.
> 
> -- 
> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
> "This signature was once found posting rude
>  messages in English in the Moscow subway."
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line
> "unsubscribe linux-8086" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at 
> http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html


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Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[JBRUCHON]

I had an old D-link wireless router that used an embedded 80186, had a 
PCMCIA card slot, a PRISM I PC card, and some useful ports on the back. 
Shame that it failed; running ELKS on that would have been like gold.  A 
very lucrative device to develop ELKS on for sure, but the point is that it 
had the 80186 CPU (the 186 was/is an embedded-only CPU, never really used in 
any general-purpose computers to my knowledge).  The COM, LPT, and more than 
one Realtek RTL8019, as well as the PCMCIA interface make it quite possibly 
the most modern-peripheral-laden 16-bit Intel CPU in existence.

Jody

Ben Weiss wrote:
> Hi Gregg,
> 
> What machine even has a 186? I now it exist[s|ed], but never knew what it was used in, always guessed some embedded stuff.
> Instruction set-wise, the 186 is compatible with 8086/88 (I think it may have one or 2 more instructions), you should be good there. 
> The 8086 is the "lowest common denominator" of the x86 line, so really ELKS will ((should)) boot on any x86.
> I'm pretty sure I downloaded some datasheets for the 186 off the net a while back. 
> If the machine doesn't make use of PC or SIBO architecture, then you'll need to do some hacking, but it sounds like you know that already.
> 
> -Ben
> 
> --- On Sat, 4/26/08, Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?
>> To: "ELKS" <linux-8086@vger.kernel.org>
>> Date: Saturday, April 26, 2008, 10:05 AM
>> Hello!
>> I am looking to make use of the basic items that are part
>> of an I80186
>> based system here. (I for Intel, even though that firm made
>> the bad
>> decision to EOL and probably discontinue that line sometime
>> ago.)
>>
>> I thought it would be appropriate to make use of ELKS for
>> it as
>> opposed to fabricating an RTOS for it from scratch. Granted
>> this is
>> asking a heck of a lot of the features found on one such
>> device, but
>> given the special nature of the I80186 and what ELKS is, it
>> does make
>> sense in a strange sort of way.
>>
>> -- 
>> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
>> "This signature was once found posting rude
>>  messages in English in the Moscow subway."
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line
>> "unsubscribe linux-8086" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at 
>> http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
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> 

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Grant Stockly]

At 01:17 PM 4/27/2008, you wrote:
>I had an old D-link wireless router that used an embedded 80186, had 
>a PCMCIA card slot, a PRISM I PC card, and some useful ports on the 
>back. Shame that it failed; running ELKS on that would have been 
>like gold.  A very lucrative device to develop ELKS on for sure, but 
>the point is that it had the 80186 CPU (the 186 was/is an 
>embedded-only CPU, never really used in any general-purpose 
>computers to my knowledge).  The COM, LPT, and more than one Realtek 
>RTL8019, as well as the PCMCIA interface make it quite possibly the 
>most modern-peripheral-laden 16-bit Intel CPU in existence.

The 186 was used in CP/M-86 systems.  I have a computer with one that 
runs AutoCAD version 1.4 for CP/M.  I don't know if the 186 was used 
in computers beyond those with the S-100 bus.

The computer with AutoCAD has more video memory than system memory.  : )

Grant 

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Gregg Levine]

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Grant Stockly <grant@stockly.com> wrote:
> At 01:17 PM 4/27/2008, you wrote:
>
> > I had an old D-link wireless router that used an embedded 80186, had a
> PCMCIA card slot, a PRISM I PC card, and some useful ports on the back.
> Shame that it failed; running ELKS on that would have been like gold.  A
> very lucrative device to develop ELKS on for sure, but the point is that it
> had the 80186 CPU (the 186 was/is an embedded-only CPU, never really used in
> any general-purpose computers to my knowledge).  The COM, LPT, and more than
> one Realtek RTL8019, as well as the PCMCIA interface make it quite possibly
> the most modern-peripheral-laden 16-bit Intel CPU in existence.
> >
>
>  The 186 was used in CP/M-86 systems.  I have a computer with one that runs
> AutoCAD version 1.4 for CP/M.  I don't know if the 186 was used in computers
> beyond those with the S-100 bus.
>
>  The computer with AutoCAD has more video memory than system memory.  : )
>
>  Grant

Hello!
Strangely enough Grant that did come up. Inside the group, actually a
newsgroup, which supports Kermit, (Program, mind,  not the overworked
and underpaid muppet.)

I have here an accelerator card who has an I80186 on it. At one point
I had an idea to sort out how to reprogram its firmware to pose as
such a system, but the idea ran out of steam, when I couldn't find
anything further about the firm.

The processor was also used for a few embedded projects.

I have a project taking shape that might be able to make use of one,
but right now it is only up to the paperwork and drafting table
status.
-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
 messages in English in the Moscow subway."

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Gregg Levine]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Chris M <chrism3667@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  --- Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > >  The 186 was used in CP/M-86 systems.  I have a
>  > computer with one that runs
>  > > AutoCAD version 1.4 for CP/M.  I don't know if the
>  > 186 was used in computers
>  > > beyond those with the S-100 bus.
>  > >
>  > >  The computer with AutoCAD has more video memory
>  > than system memory.  : )
>
>
>  Can you provide the make (and model) of this unit
>  please.
>
>
> > I have here an accelerator card who has an I80186 on
>  > it. At one point
>  > I had an idea to sort out how to reprogram its
>  > firmware to pose as
>  > such a system, but the idea ran out of steam, when I
>  > couldn't find
>  > anything further about the firm.
>
>
>
>  is this the early Orchid accelerator?
>
>   The 80186 was used in the Tandy 2000, the Mindset,
>  Televideo Personal Mini (PM/4t and PM/16t I think were
>  their designations), the Northstar Dimension, and also
>  the Burroughs ICON. Others? It was used on a number of
>  "4 port cards", AST was one manufacturer. These were
>  essentially high performance serial cards (I know
>  little more, though I did correspond w/a gent who
>  developed, in Modula-2, a bbs system for a Televideo
>  286 box (the Telecat I believe) that had 4 of these
>  cards (each providing maybe 4 high speed serial ports
>  - these boards also sported some Zilog logic). The
>  system was capable of hundreds of simultaneous users
>  in hundreds of chatrooms. It was an interesting app
>  from what I could tell, but unfortunately the vendor,
>  GeNiE, wasn't interested, wanting to make use of a
>  newly purchased mini of some sort. I could get more
>  details if anyone is interested).
>   Early Ampro Little Boards had a '186 (later ones had
>  an NEC V40).
>   There was talk on some usenet group, probably for
>  generic TRS-80s (and the Tandy 2000 did carry the
>  TRS-80 moniker). Allegedly some code was ever so
>  slightly incompatible when run on a 186 machine.
>  Subtle timing differences mayhap. I taught myself
>  assembler on my original Tandy 2000 many moons ago,
>  but farbeit for me to have noticed any
>  incompatibilities like that. But keep in mind...the
>  main reason 80186 based computers were incompatible
>  were because they just weren't clones - the Tandy 2000
>  used a video chipset by SMC. Remember during the early
>  *clone* wars (these were clones in a broad sense) most
>  vendors wanted to either outdo IBM's PEECEE (and did
>  oftentimes w/more speed, better graphics, more
>  storage) or were afraid to make something too
>  compatible and risk litigation. A common high
>  performance graphic chip was the NEC 7220. It was
>  found in the NEC APC and APC III. It wasn't compatible
>  with the Motorola 6845, used on both the CGA and MDA
>  cards.
>   There is an *8 bit* version of the 80186 called the
>  80188. I know of no computer that used it, but I do
>  have an IBM PGA clone by Vermont Microsystems that
>  uses it (the PGA was a high performance video card
>  (actually a sandwich of 3 boards) that predated the
>  vga, but was at least as capable.)
>   Oi. There was also a generic clone mobo/system
>  manufactured in the US which sported an 80186. I
>  forget the name, but they were based in California. I
>  think Computer Products United was the name, but I'd
>  have to check the ad to be sure.

Hello!
Yes you are indeed correct Chris, it is the original one from that
company, it is indeed an Accelerator card from Orchid. Besides trying
to find its networking add on card, I was also trying to find a BIOS
adoption kit from AnnaBooks, but that firm seems to have become a part
of history.

And do not apologize for your problems regarding sending things. Yahoo
is famous for deliberately screwing up how people post messages.
-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
 messages in English in the Moscow subway."

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Dan Olson]

The 186 was used in the Tandy 2000 computer, but not a whole lot else.  I 
have some old network cards with the chips on them, where they are 
basically microcontrollers.  Unfortunatly the built in functionality of 
the 186 was not compatible with the IBM PC so, while it's a great chip, 
it's limited because it won't run PC code without modification.

 	Dan

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Juanjo Marin]

Excerped from http://tuxmobil.org/pda_linux_hp_lx200.html

"The HP 200LX is an IBM PC/XT with 80186 at 8/16MHz, 640x200 CGA LCD
screen, qwerty keyboard, numeric keypad, RS-232 port, PCMCIA Type II
v2.0 slot. It has MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM. All this is in tiny form factor:
16x9x2,5 cm and 18oz. Runs off 2xAA batteries. It was in production
between 1994-1999.

the PCMCIA and BIOS INT13 services necessary to boot MINIX on the
HP200LX Palmtop from a PCMCIA ATA Flash Disk. These services should be
equally useful for booting LINUX-86 (ELKS) on the HP200LX."

-- Juanjo


El sáb, 26-04-2008 a las 11:05 -0400, Gregg Levine escribió:
> Hello!
> I am looking to make use of the basic items that are part of an I80186
> based system here. (I for Intel, even though that firm made the bad
> decision to EOL and probably discontinue that line sometime ago.)
> 
> I thought it would be appropriate to make use of ELKS for it as
> opposed to fabricating an RTOS for it from scratch. Granted this is
> asking a heck of a lot of the features found on one such device, but
> given the special nature of the I80186 and what ELKS is, it does make
> sense in a strange sort of way.
> 


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Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Brad Normand]

Another thing worth mentioning is that the NEC V20 and V30 chips are
80186 reimplementations (with some extra NEC specific instructions,
8080 emulation mode, and missing the undocumented SALC instruction).
They're pin compatable with the 8088/8086 (but a bit faster per
clock), and are usually sufficient to run real mode 286 apps.

So, it's not unreasonable to want to target the 186 for an "upgraded"
8086 system.

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Chris M]

apologies for the previous non-post (and the 2
off-list replies). Here's what I intended to post.

--- Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> wrote:

> >  The 186 was used in CP/M-86 systems.  I have a
> computer with one that runs
> > AutoCAD version 1.4 for CP/M.  I don't know if the
> 186 was used in computers
> > beyond those with the S-100 bus.
> >
> >  The computer with AutoCAD has more video memory
> than system memory.  : )

 Can you provide the make (and model) of this unit
please.

> I have here an accelerator card who has an I80186 on
> it. At one point
> I had an idea to sort out how to reprogram its
> firmware to pose as
> such a system, but the idea ran out of steam, when I
> couldn't find
> anything further about the firm.

 is this the early Orchid accelerator?

 The 80186 was used in the Tandy 2000, the Mindset,
Televideo Personal Mini (PM/4t and PM/16t I think were
their designations), the Northstar Dimension, and also
the Burroughs ICON. Others? It was used on a number of
"4 port cards", AST was one manufacturer. These were
essentially high performance serial cards (I know
little more, though I did correspond w/a gent who
developed, in Modula-2, a bbs system for a Televideo
286 box (the Telecat I believe) that had 4 of these
cards (each providing maybe 4 high speed serial ports
- these boards also sported some Zilog logic). The
system was capable of hundreds of simultaneous users
in hundreds of chatrooms. It was an interesting app
from what I could tell, but unfortunately the vendor,
GeNiE, wasn't interested, wanting to make use of a
newly purchased mini of some sort. I could get more
details if anyone is interested).
 Early Ampro Little Boards had a '186 (later ones had
an NEC V40).
 There was talk on some usenet group, probably for
generic TRS-80s (and the Tandy 2000 did carry the
TRS-80 moniker). Allegedly some code was ever so
slightly incompatible when run on a 186 machine.
Subtle timing differences mayhap. I taught myself
assembler on my original Tandy 2000 many moons ago,
but farbeit for me to have noticed any
incompatibilities like that. But keep in mind...the
main reason 80186 based computers were incompatible
were because they just weren't clones - the Tandy 2000
used a video chipset by SMC. Remember during the early
*clone* wars (these were clones in a broad sense) most
vendors wanted to either outdo IBM's PEECEE (and did
oftentimes w/more speed, better graphics, more
storage) or were afraid to make something too
compatible and risk litigation. A common high
performance graphic chip was the NEC 7220. It was
found in the NEC APC and APC III. It wasn't compatible
with the Motorola 6845, used on both the CGA and MDA
cards.
 There is an *8 bit* version of the 80186 called the
80188. I know of no computer that used it, but I do
have an IBM PGA clone by Vermont Microsystems that
uses it (the PGA was a high performance video card
(actually a sandwich of 3 boards) that predated the
vga, but was at least as capable.)
 Oi. There was also a generic clone mobo/system 
manufactured in the US which sported an 80186. I
forget the name, but they were based in California. I
think Computer Products United was the name, but I'd
have to check the ad to be sure.


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Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Denis Brown]

At 06:29 AM 30/04/2008, Chris M wrote:
>apologies for the previous non-post (and the 2
>off-list replies). Here's what I intended to post.


<snip info about systems using 80186, 80188)

Also a laptop manufactured in Australia (Queensland?) that had 80186 
IIRC.   If it hasn't gone to the tip I'll see what it is / was called :-)

Regards,
Denis

Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Chris M]

--- Denis Brown <dsbrown@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

> <snip info about systems using 80186, 80188)
> 
> Also a laptop manufactured in Australia
> (Queensland?) that had 80186 
> IIRC.   If it hasn't gone to the tip I'll see what
> it is / was called :-)

 speaking of laptops, the IBM Radio PC (or PC Radio?)
also used an 80186 (or was it an 80188?). These units
are ultra rare (I have 2, but don't have a good
battery amongst them, nor a charger). They were made
specifically for Sears IINM. Had the ability to
communicate over the old style analog cellular
networks.
 Radio Electronics published a series of articles on
how to build a goofy robot (the RE Robot in fact). The
mobo/controller sported an 80188. I have the plans and
artwork if anyone is interested. Not exactly peecee
compatible, being it does utilize at least some of the
integral peripheral functions of the 80188 (unlike the
Tandy 2000 which seemingly used very little or none.
Every major chip found on a 5150 mobo (IBM PC) is
found on it's mobo).



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Re: Has anyone gotten ELKS to run on an I80186 based system?

[Chris M]

--- Gregg Levine <gregg.drwho8@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello!
> I am looking to make use of the basic items that are
> part of an I80186
> based system here. (I for Intel, even though that
> firm made the bad
> decision to EOL and probably discontinue that line
> sometime ago.)
> 
> I thought it would be appropriate to make use of
> ELKS for it as
> opposed to fabricating an RTOS for it from scratch.
> Granted this is
> asking a heck of a lot of the features found on one
> such device, but
> given the special nature of the I80186 and what ELKS
> is, it does make
> sense in a strange sort of way.
> 
> -- 
> Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
> "This signature was once found posting rude
>  messages in English in the Moscow subway."
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line
> "unsubscribe linux-8086" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at 
> http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> 



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