RE: Elks Distribution

neil.holmes
2002-05-29T06:31:23Z

Hi Riley,

Thanks for your analysis. I am on the road for a couple of
days now but will look at it more closely when I return.

I think I may be already addressing some of the points that
you raise.

Your support is much appreciated.

Many Thanks

Neil

Quoting Riley Williams <rhw@InfraDead.Org>:

> Hi Neil.
>
> > I am very greatful to you for your support of what I am
doing.
> > Basic, though it is at the moment, I do expect it to go
much, much
> > further.
> >
> > The goal of the Distribution Edition is to create a
version of ELKS
> > that is accessible to the less technically able of us out
there.
> > Simply stated - to be able to boot from a floppy disk,
follow a
> > procedure, and finish up with a PC that boots into
ELKS at the end
> > of that process. (From my web page)
> >
> > I remember that, when I first started out with Elks, I had
a lot of
> > trouble getting going from anything other than the disk
images. I
> > had an 80286 PC that had been sat around gathering
dust and I
> > decided that it should be my ELKS desktop PC.
> >
> > Even then it took me a long time to get anywhere far
with that.
> > Although I have an IT career, its not as a 'C'
Programmer. And my
> > low level knowledge is sketchy to say the least. I find
Tannebaum's
> > tome very interesting but hard going. I guess that sort of
level is
> > not my scene.
> >
> > But what I do have is a gritty determination. And that is
how I got
> > going with the 80286. I resolved that I would get it self
booting
> > and running ELKS. I achieved that after a lot of
experimentation and
> > Newsgroup scouring.
> >
> > As I said in my email last week. I then got to the point
where I
> > wanted to try and put something back into the project of
my own. But
> > what could I do ? I certainly don't have, and probably
never will
> > have, the low level skills that you guys have. But what
I did have
> > was my own experience of getting started with ELKS.
> >
> > I realised that many others may be getting turned off to
ELKS
> > because they don't possess the same kind of
determination that I do.
> > So that was when I decided to pull together my
experience into what,
> > I hope, will become a decent Distribution Edition for
people like
> > me.
>
> I'm certainly hoping so as well.
>
> > So the roadmap that I have now goes something like
this :-
>
> I've swapped your sections (2) and (3) over as they
logically belong
> the
> other way round, and I've also reformatted the result to
make it
> easier
> to read. Here's my comments on the result...
>
> > 1. Bootable Install Floppy
> > - Shell Scripting
> >
> > - Maybe look at some of the mini "curses" code
that is lying
> > around to try and make it look prettier later.
> >
> > - I would appreciate some feedback on what I can
do with the
> > bcc version of "curses". I noticed it in the
ELKSCMD source.
> >
> > - I am thinking that for a Distribution I need to be
able to,
> > pretty well, automate everything. But, of course,
with manual
> > options for those who prefer that way.
>
> First, we need to ask precicely what the boot/install
diskette is
> supposed to achieve. Here's my take on that, in the order
they need to
> be achieved...
>
> 1. Boot into an ELKS system that does not require the
floppy
> drive to run. We can't assume that every system will
have
> two floppy drives, as most do not.
>
> One thing that would help here is if ELKS implemented
> something akin to MS-DOS's "virtual floppy" system, in
> which a system with just one floppy drive can refer to
> that drive as both A: and B: and the two drives remain
> completely independent, with the OS just asking the
> user to put the relevant diskette in the drive.
>
> 2. Partition the primary hard drive with a partition of type
> 80 that is at most 31M in size, as that is the largest
> partition that can be handled.
>
> This basically consists of a loop running fdisk /dev/bda
> and then checking for a valid partition on the result.
>
> 3. Auto-detect the correct partition and format it, then
mount
> it at a fixed location in the install file system.
>
> We can limit ourself to the four primary partitions at this
> stage for the simple reason that the ELKS hard drive
code
> does not currently support logical partitions.
>
> 4. Drop into a loop asking the user to put a diskette in the
> floppy drive, then mount it and copy everything off that
> floppy to the same place on the target filesystem.
>
> A working `tar` command would help here. Given that,
this
> would reduce to the following bash script (converted
to ash
> script):
>
> function another_disk() {
> local Y
>
> echo
> echo 'To copy another diskette, insert it in the'
> echo 'diskette drive, then type "Y" and press
ENTER'
> echo
> echo 'Copy another diskette ? '
> while read Y ; do
> case "`echo .$Y | tr A-Z a-z`" in
> .n) return 1 ;;
> .no) return 1 ;;
> .y) return 0 ;;
> .yes) return 0 ;;
> esac
> done
> }
>
> function locate() {
> find "$1" -type $2 | sed "s¬^$1/¬¬"
> }
>
> while another_disk ; do
> mount /dev/fd0 /mnt/fd0
> locate /mnt/fd0 d | while read DIR ; do
> mkdir /mnt/tgt/"${DIR}"
> done
> locate /mnt/fd0 f | while read FILE ; do
> cp -pf /mnt/fd0/"${FILE}" /mnt/tgt/"${FILE}"
> done
> copy /mnt/fd0 /mnt/tgt
> umount /dev/fd0
> done
>
> That basically does that entire step.
>
> 5. Once the user has finished copying diskettes, reboot
the system.
>
> > - The key installation issues that I see my needing to
consider
> > are :-
> >
> > - How do I resolve the kernel configuration for each
> > platform/disk layout ? Maybe Linux controlled as
per
> > your information.
>
> Two basic options:
>
> 1. Assume that the kernel on the install image is the
correct one
> for the final system.
>
> 2. The first diskette the user enters should have the
kernel image
> on it as boot/elks relative to the root of the diskette.
Refuse
> to accept it if that file isn't there.
>
> There's little other than those two options to choose from.
>
> > - How do I control partitioning during install ?
> > Again your suggestions are likely to help here.
>
> Initially, drop steps (2) and (3) in a loop such that step (3)
loops
> back to step (2) if no suitable partition is found.
>
> > - How do I deal with different types of install
images ?
> > Your suggestions, again, will be key.
>
> There's basically two scenarios that you need to worry
about:
>
> 1. The user has a 360k floppy drive.
>
> In this configuration, you're probably looking at a
boot+root
> configuration, where the boot diskette only has the
kernel on
> it, and the root diskette has everything else.
>
> 2. The user has a 720k or larger floppy drive.
>
> In this configuration, you're looking at a single 720k
image
> that can be written to any of the larger drives and will
work
> on all of them.
>
> You will probably need to answer some questions
differently when
> designing for each of these scenarios. If you can
squeeze the entire
> install system on a single 360k image, then it's much
easier, but that
> is unfortunately not likely nowadays.
>
> > - How do I Resolve the multi-booting issue ? This
may be
> > a lilo answer ? Not really thought about it yet.
>
> Initially, you don't - just design for using fdisk to switch
the
> active
> partition to the one you wish to boot from next time. That
question
> can
> then be dealt with later when the answer is probably
much clearer.
>
> > 2. Package Installation
> > - Look to install package sets as part of the
installation
> process
> > - Here I will need suggestions and contributions. I
can start
> work
> > on this now so, if anyone has anything then please
let me know.
> > Please be sure that I am ok with licensing before
submitting
> > anything. Documentation would be very helpful too !
I will try
> > them out on my desktop before I include them.
> > - SmallC I expect to be one
> > - Elvis perhaps
> >
> > 3. SLIP Network Installation
> > - Automatic installation of a SLIP connection and test
during
> > install
> > - I have not really played with this yet though I do
have Harry's
> > notes in my file.
> >
> > So there you have it. Thats what I am up to. The
feedback that I get
> > is vital and I very greatful for all the encouragement
that I have
> > had thus far.
>
> Best wishes from Riley.
>
>

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