RE: Centrino question

RE: Centrino question

[Yu, Luming]

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>I so frustrated because I can last up to 6h unplugged on the 
>windows platform

How did you run windows ? 

>but only 2h30 on linux. There must be something wrong.

How did you run Linux?

>Do you guys have any ideas?

As the first step to optimize battery life, you need to 
make sure S3 works,  then compare the battery 
life in S3.  

Thanks,
Luming





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Re: Centrino question

[Cyril Wattebled]

On Fri, 21 May 2004 19:42:58
"Yu, Luming" <luming.yu-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> How did you run windows ? 
Well, the first thing to say is that, on Windows, when the laptop is unplugged,
the processor slows down to 200 mhz instead of 600 mhz when plugged. That
says a lot of heat and, I guess power. When I say up to 6h, I mean when the
laptop is idle of course.

> How did you run Linux?

Same here, I tried to let it idle and it hold 2h30 ..

> As the first step to optimize battery life, you need to 
> make sure S3 works,  then compare the battery 
> life in S3.
Yeah, I've been trying for some time now to make it work.
It suspends very well but never ever woke up. Even worse, I can't even hard
reboot. I have to remove the battery and plug it back to make it work.
By the way, if anyone has an idea about what's wrong ... please share =]

> Thanks,
> Luming
No no no, thank you ! =]


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Re: Centrino question

[Len Brown]

On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 20:56, Cyril Wattebled wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 19:42:58
> "Yu, Luming" <luming.yu-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> > How did you run windows ? 
> Well, the first thing to say is that, on Windows, when the laptop is unplugged,
> the processor slows down to 200 mhz instead of 600 mhz when plugged. That
> says a lot of heat and, I guess power. When I say up to 6h, I mean when the
> laptop is idle of course.
> 
> > How did you run Linux?
> 
> Same here, I tried to let it idle and it hold 2h30 ..

Linux slows the processor to 600MHz when Windows gets down to 200MHz?

How about the display -- is the brightness comparable on Linux vs
Windows?

thanks,
-Len




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Re: Centrino question

[Cyril Wattebled]

On 22 May 2004 23:24:10 -0400
Len Brown <len.brown-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 2004-05-21 at 20:56, Cyril Wattebled wrote:
> > On Fri, 21 May 2004 19:42:58
> > "Yu, Luming" <luming.yu-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > How did you run windows ? 
> > Well, the first thing to say is that, on Windows, when the laptop is
> > unplugged, the processor slows down to 200 mhz instead of 600 mhz when
> > plugged. That says a lot of heat and, I guess power. When I say up to 6h, I
> > mean when the laptop is idle of course.
> > 
> > > How did you run Linux?
> > 
> > Same here, I tried to let it idle and it hold 2h30 ..
> 
> Linux slows the processor to 600MHz when Windows gets down to 200MHz?

Yes, I have already asked around why this happends. Windows slows the processor
down to 200 mhz when unplugged and down to 600 mhz when plugged. Windows
behaves just like linux with the AC power on but when on battery, it manages
to slow it down to 200mhz. This allows the laptop to last more than on linux
and also, the temperature of the overall laptop is cooler (which is really more
confortable).
It seems that Windows is using some kind of clock modulation along with the
enhanced speedstep. I'm not sure about that but, I was told that it should be
something like it. (cf cpufreq mailing list, thread called "Pentium M minimum
clock modulation").

> How about the display -- is the brightness comparable on Linux vs
> Windows?

yes, The screen brightness is set to the same value.

> thanks,
> -Len

Thanks,

--
Cyril Wattebled
neurowork-GANU6spQydw@public.gmane.org


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Re: Centrino question

[Ow Mun Heng]

On Sun, 2004-05-23 at 06:21, Cyril Wattebled wrote:
> On 22 May 2004 23:24:10 -0400
> Len Brown <len.brown-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Linux slows the processor to 600MHz when Windows gets down to 200MHz?

Len,

	On my system, either 2.4 or 2.6 kernel, running on battery, cpufreq is at 600Mhz but
if i were running gkrellm, the x86info plugin will show that the cpufreq is actually fluactuating 
between 99 to 200 mHz. I'm not sure where this plugin gets it's data but..


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Re: Centrino question

[Stefan Seyfried]

On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 09:11:18AM -0700, Ow Mun Heng wrote:
> On Sun, 2004-05-23 at 06:21, Cyril Wattebled wrote:
> > On 22 May 2004 23:24:10 -0400
> > Len Brown <len.brown-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > Linux slows the processor to 600MHz when Windows gets down to 200MHz?
> 
> Len,
> 
> 	On my system, either 2.4 or 2.6 kernel, running on battery, cpufreq is at 600Mhz but
> if i were running gkrellm, the x86info plugin will show that the cpufreq is actually fluactuating 
> between 99 to 200 mHz. I'm not sure where this plugin gets it's data but..

I am quite sure that this is due to the tool you are using and due to C3 usage.
I don't know about the gkrellm x86info plugin, but the suse 9.1 powersaved
has a function to get the "real" CPU speed. It goes something like this:

float getRealProcessorSpeed() {

        /* get this function in cached memory */
        gettimeofday(&tvstart, NULL);
        __asm__ volatile ("rdtsc" : "=A" (x));
        cycles[0] = x;
        gettimeofday(&tvstart, NULL);

        /* we don't trust that this is any specific length of time */
        sleep_left = sleep(1);
        if (sleep_left || errno == EINTR)
                return -1.0;
        __asm__ volatile ("rdtsc" : "=A" (x));
        cycles[1] = x;
        gettimeofday(&tvstop, NULL);
        microseconds = ((tvstop.tv_sec-tvstart.tv_sec)*1000000) +
                (tvstop.tv_usec-tvstart.tv_usec);

        ret = (float)(cycles[1]-cycles[0])/microseconds;
        return ret;
}

There is of course some more checking around, it is only working on i386, 
not on ia64.  This shows me:

seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> powersave -r
82.559082 MHz

but from /sys/.../scaling_setspeed i see that my cpu is running on 600mhz.

seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/power 
active state:            C3
default state:           C1
bus master activity:     00000000
states:
    C1:                  promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000] usage[00020000]
    C2:                  promotion[C3] demotion[C1] latency[002] usage[00737909]
   *C3:                  promotion[--] demotion[C2] latency[205] usage[35772579]

if i force C2 state (by plugging in a usb mouse or playing sound), it shows
the frequency correct:

seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> powersave -r
598.058594 MHz

seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/power 
active state:            C2
default state:           C1
bus master activity:     ffffffff
states:
    C1:                  promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000] usage[00020850]
   *C2:                  promotion[C3] demotion[C1] latency[002] usage[00770669]
    C3:                  promotion[--] demotion[C2] latency[205] usage[35825285]

So the effects you are seeing are clearly related to a tool that is measuring
wrong.
-- 
Stefan Seyfried



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Re: Re: Centrino question

[Len Brown]

Stefan
The LAPIC TSC is not reliable when C3 runs.

Indeed, we need to either disable the TSC if C3 is enabled,
or disabled C3 if the TSC is used.

-Len

http://bugme.osdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2560

On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 03:27, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
> On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 09:11:18AM -0700, Ow Mun Heng wrote:
> > On Sun, 2004-05-23 at 06:21, Cyril Wattebled wrote:
> > > On 22 May 2004 23:24:10 -0400
> > > Len Brown <len.brown-ral2JQCrhuEAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > > Linux slows the processor to 600MHz when Windows gets down to 200MHz?
> > 
> > Len,
> > 
> > 	On my system, either 2.4 or 2.6 kernel, running on battery, cpufreq is at 600Mhz but
> > if i were running gkrellm, the x86info plugin will show that the cpufreq is actually fluactuating 
> > between 99 to 200 mHz. I'm not sure where this plugin gets it's data but..
> 
> I am quite sure that this is due to the tool you are using and due to C3 usage.
> I don't know about the gkrellm x86info plugin, but the suse 9.1 powersaved
> has a function to get the "real" CPU speed. It goes something like this:
> 
> float getRealProcessorSpeed() {
> 
>         /* get this function in cached memory */
>         gettimeofday(&tvstart, NULL);
>         __asm__ volatile ("rdtsc" : "=A" (x));
>         cycles[0] = x;
>         gettimeofday(&tvstart, NULL);
> 
>         /* we don't trust that this is any specific length of time */
>         sleep_left = sleep(1);
>         if (sleep_left || errno == EINTR)
>                 return -1.0;
>         __asm__ volatile ("rdtsc" : "=A" (x));
>         cycles[1] = x;
>         gettimeofday(&tvstop, NULL);
>         microseconds = ((tvstop.tv_sec-tvstart.tv_sec)*1000000) +
>                 (tvstop.tv_usec-tvstart.tv_usec);
> 
>         ret = (float)(cycles[1]-cycles[0])/microseconds;
>         return ret;
> }
> 
> There is of course some more checking around, it is only working on i386, 
> not on ia64.  This shows me:
> 
> seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> powersave -r
> 82.559082 MHz
> 
> but from /sys/.../scaling_setspeed i see that my cpu is running on 600mhz.
> 
> seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/power 
> active state:            C3
> default state:           C1
> bus master activity:     00000000
> states:
>     C1:                  promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000] usage[00020000]
>     C2:                  promotion[C3] demotion[C1] latency[002] usage[00737909]
>    *C3:                  promotion[--] demotion[C2] latency[205] usage[35772579]
> 
> if i force C2 state (by plugging in a usb mouse or playing sound), it shows
> the frequency correct:
> 
> seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> powersave -r
> 598.058594 MHz
> 
> seife-4N56LNXDvWs@public.gmane.org:~> cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/power 
> active state:            C2
> default state:           C1
> bus master activity:     ffffffff
> states:
>     C1:                  promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000] usage[00020850]
>    *C2:                  promotion[C3] demotion[C1] latency[002] usage[00770669]
>     C3:                  promotion[--] demotion[C2] latency[205] usage[35825285]
> 
> So the effects you are seeing are clearly related to a tool that is measuring
> wrong.



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Re: Re: Centrino question

[Stefan Seyfried]

On Thu, May 27, 2004 at 02:13:25AM -0400, Len Brown wrote:
> Stefan
> The LAPIC TSC is not reliable when C3 runs.

Yes, i guessed something like that. What i wanted to point out is, that
tools to determine the "real" CPU frequency, which are using tsc, are
not reliable at all.

-- 
Stefan Seyfried



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