high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Thomas Glomann]

Hello,

I am running a Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop with a gentoo linux.
Since my first experiments with kernel 2.6 I always experience a high noise 
frequency noise coming back right corner (psu?) of my laptop. 
This happens with every 2.6 kernel i have tried so far. Currently it is 2.6.2.

This is definitely related to the ACPI system in the 2.6 kernels !  If i boot 
a kernel with the "acpi=off" option, then the noise is gone. 

And there is also a very strange thing. This sound occurs only in kernel 2.6.  
A 2.4 kernel patched with ACPI does NOT produce that sound.

I haven't found any related information here in this mailing list (archive) 
but in the kernel mailing list, there you can find some posts describing 
exactly the same behavior.  Someone suggested to use "apm=ide-treshold=100" 
as kernel option. But that didn't help, nor unloading thermal.o. 
(google for "high pitch noise" , there you will that thread)

And there's two more things:

# The noise is somewhat linked to the CPU clock. I have a mobile P4 processor   
with 2 performance profiles : 2000 and 1200 Mhz. The noise becomes quieter 
when changing to 1200 Mhz but it still is there. just not that loud as with 
the default 2000 Mhz. 

# The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.

I really like to get rid off that annoying sound. I can't bear it though it is 
only faint. For now, I use kernel 2.4 but I really want to switch to 2.6 and 
have acpi enabled of course.


Please help me !



Thanks a lot !


regards

Thomas Glomann
Regensburg, Germany


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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Mads Paulin]

Hi Thomas,

funny you mention it, I thought I was going crazy.

I experienced the same thing, and discovered it to be the hard drive.

Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.

Obviously this is not a solution, but if it helps, kernel 2.6 could have
some other way of controlling the disk than 2.4.

The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.
- Maybe you just cant here it then, or it actually disappears because it
is no longer idle

Regards
Mads


On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 13:20, Thomas Glomann wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am running a Dell Inspiron 8200 laptop with a gentoo linux.
> Since my first experiments with kernel 2.6 I always experience a high noise 
> frequency noise coming back right corner (psu?) of my laptop. 
> This happens with every 2.6 kernel i have tried so far. Currently it is 2.6.2.
> 
> This is definitely related to the ACPI system in the 2.6 kernels !  If i boot 
> a kernel with the "acpi=off" option, then the noise is gone. 
> 
> And there is also a very strange thing. This sound occurs only in kernel 2.6.  
> A 2.4 kernel patched with ACPI does NOT produce that sound.
> 
> I haven't found any related information here in this mailing list (archive) 
> but in the kernel mailing list, there you can find some posts describing 
> exactly the same behavior.  Someone suggested to use "apm=ide-treshold=100" 
> as kernel option. But that didn't help, nor unloading thermal.o. 
> (google for "high pitch noise" , there you will that thread)
> 
> And there's two more things:
> 
> # The noise is somewhat linked to the CPU clock. I have a mobile P4 processor   
> with 2 performance profiles : 2000 and 1200 Mhz. The noise becomes quieter 
> when changing to 1200 Mhz but it still is there. just not that loud as with 
> the default 2000 Mhz. 
> 
> # The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.
> 
> I really like to get rid off that annoying sound. I can't bear it though it is 
> only faint. For now, I use kernel 2.4 but I really want to switch to 2.6 and 
> have acpi enabled of course.
> 
> 
> Please help me !
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot !
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> Thomas Glomann
> Regensburg, Germany
> 
> 
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> _______________________________________________
> Acpi-devel mailing list
> Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel



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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Thomas Glomann]

On Wednesday 18 February 2004 14:32, Mads Paulin wrote:
> Hi Thomas,
>
> funny you mention it, I thought I was going crazy.
>
> I experienced the same thing, and discovered it to be the hard drive.
>
> Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.
>
nope, putting the drive to sleep doesn't do the trick. the sound remains. 
Moreover I don't see how this "solution" was meant to work? Does the sound 
reappear when you wake up your disk or does it keep silent after a nice 
"onetime" sleep?
> Obviously this is not a solution, but if it helps, kernel 2.6 could have
> some other way of controlling the disk than 2.4.
>
Still it doesn't explain why that sound is gone when disabling the whole 
acpi-system.
> The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.
> - Maybe you just cant here it then, or it actually disappears because it
> is no longer idle
>
well thats true. as long as the disk is Not idle, the noise is gone. But 
returns right after.

> Regards
> Mads

So any other ideas?


Thomas


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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Michael Guntsche]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1544 bytes --]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:17:47 +0100
Thomas Glomann <mailinglists-WoYc4IhrKEiELgA04lAiVw@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 14:32, Mads Paulin wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > funny you mention it, I thought I was going crazy.
> >
> > I experienced the same thing, and discovered it to be the hard drive.
> >
> > Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.
> >
> nope, putting the drive to sleep doesn't do the trick. the sound remains. 
> Moreover I don't see how this "solution" was meant to work? Does the sound 
> reappear when you wake up your disk or does it keep silent after a nice 
> "onetime" sleep?
> > Obviously this is not a solution, but if it helps, kernel 2.6 could have
> > some other way of controlling the disk than 2.4.
> >
> Still it doesn't explain why that sound is gone when disabling the whole 
> acpi-system.
> > The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.
> > - Maybe you just cant here it then, or it actually disappears because it
> > is no longer idle
> >
> well thats true. as long as the disk is Not idle, the noise is gone. But 
> returns right after.
> 
> > Regards
> > Mads
> 
> So any other ideas?

You could try and change HZ from 1000 to 100 in "src/linux/include/asm/param.h"

#ifdef __KERNEL__
# define HZ   1000   <--- change this to 100
# define USER_HZ  100   /* .. some user interfaces are in "ticks" */
# define CLOCKS_PER_SEC (USER_HZ) /* like times() */
#endif

It worked for me and I haven't seen any side effects after changing it.


/Michael


 

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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Dominik Brodowski]

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Maybe this is caused by the CPU being put into an idle mode (C-State). If
the HD is active, bm_activity [*] will be high and C3 will be disabled for
this time, so you won't hear the noise then. The difference between 2.4. and
2.6. is the different HZ value -- in 2.4., the sound was of ~100Hz
frequency, now it's 1kHz...

	Dominik

[*] you can see that in /proc/acpi/processor/*/power

On Wed, Feb 18, 2004 at 08:17:47PM +0100, Thomas Glomann wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 14:32, Mads Paulin wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > funny you mention it, I thought I was going crazy.
> >
> > I experienced the same thing, and discovered it to be the hard drive.
> >
> > Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.
> >
> nope, putting the drive to sleep doesn't do the trick. the sound remains. 
> Moreover I don't see how this "solution" was meant to work? Does the sound 
> reappear when you wake up your disk or does it keep silent after a nice 
> "onetime" sleep?
> > Obviously this is not a solution, but if it helps, kernel 2.6 could have
> > some other way of controlling the disk than 2.4.
> >
> Still it doesn't explain why that sound is gone when disabling the whole 
> acpi-system.
> > The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.
> > - Maybe you just cant here it then, or it actually disappears because it
> > is no longer idle
> >
> well thats true. as long as the disk is Not idle, the noise is gone. But 
> returns right after.
> 
> > Regards
> > Mads
> 
> So any other ideas?
> 
> 
> Thomas
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Acpi-devel mailing list
> Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel

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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Jason Straight]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday February 18 2004 14:17, Thomas Glomann wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 14:32, Mads Paulin wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > funny you mention it, I thought I was going crazy.
> >
> > I experienced the same thing, and discovered it to be the hard drive.
> >
> > Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.
>
> nope, putting the drive to sleep doesn't do the trick. the sound remains.
> Moreover I don't see how this "solution" was meant to work? Does the sound
> reappear when you wake up your disk or does it keep silent after a nice
> "onetime" sleep?

I think it was meant to be an attempt to see if it was the HD itself making 
the noise somehow.


- -- 
Jason Straight
jason-FsARDRJRoaOsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org
jason-7Pts9v9A/dAFAfPL0dH0GeTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org
SkyCon Networks
phone: (231)627-3528
http://www.skycon.net/
ICQ: 1796276
pgp: http://www.jeetkunedomaster.net/~junfan/pgp.key
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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Nate Lawson]

On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Thomas Glomann wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 14:32, Mads Paulin wrote:
> > Hi Thomas,
> >
> > funny you mention it, I thought I was going crazy.
> >
> > I experienced the same thing, and discovered it to be the hard drive.
> >
> > Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.
> >
> nope, putting the drive to sleep doesn't do the trick. the sound remains.
> Moreover I don't see how this "solution" was meant to work? Does the sound
> reappear when you wake up your disk or does it keep silent after a nice
> "onetime" sleep?
> > Obviously this is not a solution, but if it helps, kernel 2.6 could have
> > some other way of controlling the disk than 2.4.
> >
> Still it doesn't explain why that sound is gone when disabling the whole
> acpi-system.
> > The noise disappears when my hdd is under heavy load.
> > - Maybe you just cant here it then, or it actually disappears because it
> > is no longer idle
> >
> well thats true. as long as the disk is Not idle, the noise is gone. But
> returns right after.

Disable cpu idling support or try various combinations of C1-C3.  The
noise is most likely capacitors (dis)charging as part of chipset-supported
clock stopping.  You can detect this case by changing the scheduling
quantum (HZ) to be something other than 1000.

-Nate


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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Adam Lackorzynski]

On Wed Feb 18, 2004 at 20:17:47 +0100, Thomas Glomann wrote:
> So any other ideas?

I had this problem recently as well and the noise appeared when the
processor-ACPI module was loaded, unloading made it quiet again. This
wasn't on a Dell but on an HP notebook. Maybe this helps a bit.




Adam
-- 
Adam                 adam-IG//nw+yl+iQIjdd1DhZXWfrygkm6VTR@public.gmane.org
  Lackorzynski         http://os.inf.tu-dresden.de/~adam/


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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Markus Wiesner]

Thomas Glomann schrieb:
>On Wednesday 18 February 2004 14:32, Mads Paulin wrote:
>> Try to spind the drive down using hdparm and see if that helps.
>>
>nope, putting the drive to sleep doesn't do the trick. the sound
>remains.

I have the same problem with my Inspiron 8200. (Tried only 2.6.0 some
weeks ago, but the problem obviously still exists in newer kernels)

It has nothing to do with the drive but only the CPU being idle. When
doing e.g. "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null" the noise is gone. Slowing
down the CPU via "echo $SOMELIMIT > /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/limit"
reduces the noise, too. (lowering performance and throttling both help)

But both methods are not really a solution to make kernel 2.6 usable
with this machine. :-(

I read somewhere that it might be caused by the higher HZ value in
kernel 2.6 (1000, 2.4 uses 100). Is it safe to change this value or can
there be unwanted side effects?

Markus
-- 
This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for higher security.


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Re: high pitch noise with kernel 2.6 and ACPI (Dell Inspiron 8200)

[Thomas Glomann]

>
> You could try and change HZ from 1000 to 100 in
> "src/linux/include/asm/param.h"
>
> #ifdef __KERNEL__
> # define HZ   1000   <--- change this to 100
> # define USER_HZ  100   /* .. some user interfaces are in "ticks" */
> # define CLOCKS_PER_SEC (USER_HZ) /* like times() */
> #endif
>
> It worked for me and I haven't seen any side effects after changing it.
>
>
> /Michael


I will try that and see if there's any side effects.

Thanks alot guys !   :)



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