ACPI HOWTO

ACPI HOWTO

[Emma Jane Hogbin]

Hello,

I've just published an updated version of the ACPI HOWTO. It is available
at:
	http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/ACPI-HOWTO/index.html
I know everyone's busy...but I was hoping that I could get a few eyes on
the text at some point. I'd like to create a section that has "gotchas"
listed by kernel version, but I haven't quite decided where to put that
information yet (perhaps as an appendix?). I've already moved the patch
information to an appendix as it shouldn't be relevant once the bugs
are ironed out of the 2.6.x series kernel...right?

emma

-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]


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Re: ACPI HOWTO

[John Belmonte]

Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:
> I've just published an updated version of the ACPI HOWTO. It is available
> at:
> 	http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/ACPI-HOWTO/index.html
> I know everyone's busy...but I was hoping that I could get a few eyes on
> the text at some point. I'd like to create a section that has "gotchas"
> listed by kernel version, but I haven't quite decided where to put that
> information yet (perhaps as an appendix?). I've already moved the patch
> information to an appendix as it shouldn't be relevant once the bugs
> are ironed out of the 2.6.x series kernel...right?

I looked at this briefly on your first announcement, and felt that there 
is a conceptual problem with the document.  Half of it seems to be 
dedicated to compiling and installing kernels, which is covered in other 
HOWTO's and guides, Debian way or otherwise.

It may be that when you started with ACPI, there was a large gap between 
ACPI development work and kernel releases.  From my understanding, these 
days, the 2.4 and 2.6 kernels use the same ACPI system, and improvements 
  by the ACPI team show up rather quickly in the kernel, especially the 
2.6 series.  I'm sure others on this list are more qualified to talk 
about this than I am.

Certainly ACPI is a complex system, and transitioning from APM is 
difficult.  These topics are worthy of documentation efforts like yours. 
  However, it may be better to start such a document with "Be sure you 
are using the latest 2.4 or 2.6 kernel", provide a reference to 
documents which may assist users in upgrading their kernel, and focus on 
ACPI configuration and troubleshooting itself.

Regards,
-John


-- 
http:// ift ile.org/


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Re: ACPI HOWTO

[Emma Jane Hogbin]

On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 08:13:05PM -0400, John Belmonte wrote:
> Certainly ACPI is a complex system, and transitioning from APM is 
> difficult.  These topics are worthy of documentation efforts like yours. 
>  However, it may be better to start such a document with "Be sure you 
> are using the latest 2.4 or 2.6 kernel", provide a reference to 
> documents which may assist users in upgrading their kernel, and focus on 
> ACPI configuration and troubleshooting itself.

Agreed. At this point I've started introducing the 2.6.x series
information into the document; however, I've actually wrecked my own
laptop to try and get the new information in. I used to have a perfectly
functional laptop, now that I've got the 2.6.5 kernel I'm having problems
with not only ACPI, but also my wireless card and my printers. Even in
2.4.22 ACPI has never worked perfectly for me and it was virtually
impossible for me to extend the documentation past what my laptop was
capable of doing.

Although I'm happy to compile and write documentation on a subject that I
know little about, I am not willing to release documentation that I am not
able to test for myself. I've asked for help from a number of different
places and have gotten no response other than from this email. I recently
received email from one person about a specific bug. When I asked them for 
further information about the problem he told me to just put in the documentation
that users should upgrade their BIOS--as if everyone already knew how to
do this. I certainly don't and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

I understand that everyone is busy. I know I certainly am. While I'm happy
to work on bringing the documentation up to date, I cannot do it without
help.

emma

-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]


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Re: ACPI HOWTO

[Len Brown]

On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 20:13, John Belmonte wrote:

> It may be that when you started with ACPI, there was a large gap between 
> ACPI development work and kernel releases.  From my understanding, these 
> days, the 2.4 and 2.6 kernels use the same ACPI system, and improvements 
>   by the ACPI team show up rather quickly in the kernel, especially the 
> 2.6 series.  I'm sure others on this list are more qualified to talk 
> about this than I am.

Emma,
It would be fair to call ACPI on Linux an "emerging technology", and
bugs are being fixed at a rapid rate.  For this reason I do agree that
step 1 should be to run the most recent kernel that is practical.

Note that we support the latest ACPI code on 2.4 and 2.6; both the
latest released kernel and the kernel under development. eg.

2.6.7 (develpment)
2.6.6 (released)

2.4.27 (development)
2.4.26 (released)

The ACPI patch gets absorbed into the development trees about every 5 to
10 days.  We try to make these updates as frequent as practical so that
the ACPI patch never grows too big.

As the released trees are no longer accepting patches, the ACPI patch
for the grows monatonically, but then gets deleted when the development
tree gets released and a new development tree is created.  This is to
encourage users to run (and test;-) the latest kernels.

Also, before any ACPI bugs are reported, it is best to verify that the
machine is running the latest BIOS from the vendor.
The better vendors are actually quite good about releasing BIOS fixes
for systems in the field.

For a number or reasons, I am not a big advocate of running patched
DSDTs -- my view in this area is that is a debugging tool, and that we
should either fix Linux to handle the BIOS, or the BIOS should be
corrected by the vendor.

thanks,
-Len




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RE: ACPI HOWTO

[Rockefeller, Harry]

Several tech HowTos are maturing via direct input from users using
a wiki of some sort.  The ones I have used and seen however
suffer from poor organization.

I would suggest readers of this group pound out some kind of
a framework (outline?) that someone could host on a wiki where
everyone/anyone can ask questions and provide answers.

So, here is my attempt at getting it started:

[Note:  This may not be the best solution.  Perhaps most of this
information is already available or has been answered in this
list.  Because ACPI is so tied to kernel drivers and is changing
at an enourmous rate the "structure" of a HOWTO may not be the
most effective use of developer's time.  It won't hurt me if my
idea is torn to shreds or worse (better?) a one line link that
says look here for 95% of the answers to these questions.]

What is ACPI?  Maybe terse definition is all that is needed with
   pointers to Intel standard, and some others.

If ACPI is an Intel standard does it work with Athlon or other
   hardware?

Where does ACPI fit in ...
   Replacement for APM
   A) the boot process of ...
        A1) any PC?
             What is happening (is ACPI or APM involved) before
             the BIOS interrupt screen happens?
             What is happening between the BIOS and the Linux
             Loader (LILO or Grub, etc.)  i.e., can a multi-kernel
             system allow booting either APM or ACPI? 
        A2) battery powered PC?
             What controls battery charge when nothing else is
             running?
             What is going on when I hit the power button and
             lights flash but then nothing?  [A lo-o-ong power
             button press causes a normal boot.]
   B) standby = S2?
        I think it went into S2 ok, but I can't wake it up?
   C) Suspend to RAM = S3?
        I think it went into S3 ok, but I can't wake it up?
   D) Suspend to DISK = S4?
        D1) Are there any alternatives to APM and ACPI?
             provide link to swsusp(2)?
   E) Emergency shutdown = S5?

What modules does the kernel need to have ACPI work?
   Provide a link to /usr/src/linux/Documentation/pm.txt
   and maybe others.

How can I tell if these modules are installed?
   grep ACPI /usr/src/linux/.config

What do these filesystems do and how are they useful?

   /proc/acpi
   /sys/power
   /sys/firmware/acpi

I get ... error when booting.  What can/should I do?
and
what kernel parameters may I use to force ACPI do things?

     I'm convinced my machine has a bios error.  How can
     tell if a new bios is available?  If not, how can I
     persuade my manufacturer to fix the problem with a
     bios upgrade?

I get ... error when going into or resuming from S2/S3/S4.

    Answer: First simplify your problem by not running X,
    rmmoding networking modules before standby/suspend, etc.

How does kernel ACPI interface with user programs?
   link to acpid, maybe others.

Specific ACPI questions/info about ...
      A) battery
	B) processor
      C) fan
      D) AC adapter
      E) buttons
      F) thermal
      G) maybe dsdt, embedded_controller, power_resource, etc.
	

I think I have found an acpi bug.  How do I report it?
What logs, kernel debug parameters to enhance logs, etc.
are important to the acpi developers?

I got acpi working (finally) on ... notebook PC.  Does anyone else
care?  Should I report success to linux-on-laptops or tuxmobile?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: acpi-devel-admin-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org 
> [mailto:acpi-devel-admin-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of 
> Emma Jane Hogbin
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:37 AM
> To: acpi
> Subject: Re: [ACPI] ACPI HOWTO
> 
> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 08:13:05PM -0400, John Belmonte wrote:
> > Certainly ACPI is a complex system, and transitioning from APM is 
> > difficult.  These topics are worthy of documentation 
> efforts like yours. 
> >  However, it may be better to start such a document with 
> "Be sure you 
> > are using the latest 2.4 or 2.6 kernel", provide a reference to 
> > documents which may assist users in upgrading their kernel, 
> and focus on 
> > ACPI configuration and troubleshooting itself.
> 
> Agreed. At this point I've started introducing the 2.6.x series
> information into the document; however, I've actually wrecked my own
> laptop to try and get the new information in. I used to have 
> a perfectly
> functional laptop, now that I've got the 2.6.5 kernel I'm 
> having problems
> with not only ACPI, but also my wireless card and my printers. Even in
> 2.4.22 ACPI has never worked perfectly for me and it was virtually
> impossible for me to extend the documentation past what my laptop was
> capable of doing.
> 
> Although I'm happy to compile and write documentation on a 
> subject that I
> know little about, I am not willing to release documentation 
> that I am not
> able to test for myself. I've asked for help from a number of 
> different
> places and have gotten no response other than from this 
> email. I recently
> received email from one person about a specific bug. When I 
> asked them for 
> further information about the problem he told me to just put 
> in the documentation
> that users should upgrade their BIOS--as if everyone already 
> knew how to
> do this. I certainly don't and I can't imagine I'm the only one.
> 
> I understand that everyone is busy. I know I certainly am. 
> While I'm happy
> to work on bringing the documentation up to date, I cannot do 
> it without
> help.
> 
> emma
> 
> -- 
> Emma Jane Hogbin
> [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]
> 
> 
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> _______________________________________________
> Acpi-devel mailing list
> Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel
> 
> 


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Re: ACPI HOWTO

[Bruno Ducrot]

On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 09:50:53AM -0500, Rockefeller, Harry wrote:
> Several tech HowTos are maturing via direct input from users using
> a wiki of some sort.  The ones I have used and seen however
> suffer from poor organization.
> 
> I would suggest readers of this group pound out some kind of
> a framework (outline?) that someone could host on a wiki where
> everyone/anyone can ask questions and provide answers.
> 
> So, here is my attempt at getting it started:
...

Basically, you are describing
<http://acpi.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php>, aren't you?


-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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RE: ACPI HOWTO

[Len Brown]

On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 10:50, Rockefeller, Harry wrote:
> Several tech HowTos are maturing via direct input from users using
> a wiki of some sort.  The ones I have used and seen however
> suffer from poor organization.
> 
> I would suggest readers of this group pound out some kind of
> a framework (outline?) that someone could host on a wiki where
> everyone/anyone can ask questions and provide answers.
> 
> So, here is my attempt at getting it started:
> 
> [Note:  This may not be the best solution.  Perhaps most of this
> information is already available or has been answered in this
> list.  Because ACPI is so tied to kernel drivers and is changing
> at an enourmous rate the "structure" of a HOWTO may not be the
> most effective use of developer's time.  It won't hurt me if my
> idea is torn to shreds or worse (better?) a one line link that
> says look here for 95% of the answers to these questions.]
> 
> What is ACPI?  Maybe terse definition is all that is needed with
>    pointers to Intel standard, and some others.
> 
> If ACPI is an Intel standard does it work with Athlon or other
>    hardware?

Intel is just one of the spec authors/promoters.
Yes, ACPI works also on systems w/o Intel processors, such as Intel
compatible processors from AMD.

> Where does ACPI fit in ...
>    Replacement for APM
>    A) the boot process of ...
>         A1) any PC?
>              What is happening (is ACPI or APM involved) before
>              the BIOS interrupt screen happens?
>              What is happening between the BIOS and the Linux
>              Loader (LILO or Grub, etc.)  i.e., can a multi-kernel
>              system allow booting either APM or ACPI? 

The kernel (eg distro kernel) is generally built with both APM and ACPI.
If ACPI is found, APM is disabled.  The BIOS can have any combination of
APM or ACPI support, and the kernel should still work.

ACPI also replaces PnP, PIRQ, and MPS specs. for configuration.

>         A2) battery powered PC?
>              What controls battery charge when nothing else is
>              running?

Battery charging is controlled by hardware.

>              What is going on when I hit the power button and
>              lights flash but then nothing?  [A lo-o-ong power
>              button press causes a normal boot.]
>    B) standby = S2?
>         I think it went into S2 ok, but I can't wake it up?

S2 is deprecated.  Indeed, I've never seen a platform that supports it.

S1 is supported, but worthless as it doesn't save hardly any power.

>    C) Suspend to RAM = S3?
>         I think it went into S3 ok, but I can't wake it up?

bugs;-)

>    D) Suspend to DISK = S4?
>         D1) Are there any alternatives to APM and ACPI?
>              provide link to swsusp(2)?
>    E) Emergency shutdown = S5?

S5 is "soft off", and may have nothing to do with an emergency.

> 
> I think I have found an acpi bug.  How do I report it?
> What logs, kernel debug parameters to enhance logs, etc.
> are important to the acpi developers?

this is on http://acpi.sourceforge.net which is listed as the home page
for Linux/ACPI in /usr/src/MAINTAINERS.

cheers,
-Len




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Re: ACPI HOWTO

[Michael Frank]

>>
>> What is ACPI?  Maybe terse definition is all that is needed with
>>    pointers to Intel standard, and some others.
>>
>> If ACPI is an Intel standard does it work with Athlon or other
>>    hardware?
>
> Intel is just one of the spec authors/promoters.
> Yes, ACPI works also on systems w/o Intel processors, such as Intel
> compatible processors from AMD.

... or AMD compatible processors from Intel ;)



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RE: ACPI HOWTO

[Rockefeller, Harry]

I took a look and it was about the same as last time I looked.
It had specialized articles on things like DSDT.  I followed the
link to ACPI4Linux home then to documentation then to existing
ACPI HOWTOs.  All HOWTOs seemed to lack what I was hoping to find
(in my provided outline in original list response).

John also seemed this was lacking, i.e.,

> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 08:13:05PM -0400, John Belmonte wrote:
> > Certainly ACPI is a complex system, and transitioning from APM is 
> > difficult.  These topics are worthy of documentation 
> efforts like yours. 
> >  However, it may be better to start such a document with 
> "Be sure you 
> > are using the latest 2.4 or 2.6 kernel", provide a reference to 
> > documents which may assist users in upgrading their kernel, 
> and focus on 
> > ACPI configuration and troubleshooting itself.

What I think would be ideal would be to have the experts iron out
the outline I provided; move and add things so that the organization
hangs together better.  Then perhaps put this as the "living" ACPI
HOWTO on the wiki page you suggested.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruno Ducrot [mailto:ducrot-kk6yZipjEM5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:37 AM
> To: Rockefeller, Harry
> Cc: acpi
> Subject: Re: [ACPI] ACPI HOWTO
> 
> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 09:50:53AM -0500, Rockefeller, Harry wrote:
> > Several tech HowTos are maturing via direct input from users using
> > a wiki of some sort.  The ones I have used and seen however
> > suffer from poor organization.
> > 
> > I would suggest readers of this group pound out some kind of
> > a framework (outline?) that someone could host on a wiki where
> > everyone/anyone can ask questions and provide answers.
> > 
> > So, here is my attempt at getting it started:
> ...
> 
> Basically, you are describing
> <http://acpi.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php>, aren't you?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bruno Ducrot
> 
> --  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
> --  Don't know.  Don't care.
> 
> 


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Re: ACPI HOWTO

[Bruno Ducrot]

On Wed, May 19, 2004 at 09:47:59AM -0500, Rockefeller, Harry wrote:
> What I think would be ideal would be to have the experts iron out
> the outline I provided; move and add things so that the organization
> hangs together better.  Then perhaps put this as the "living" ACPI
> HOWTO on the wiki page you suggested.
> 

it was a long time I do not look actually at the wiky at
acpi.sf.net.  Sound like there may be a need to add more infos as
you said.

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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RE: ACPI HOWTO

[Yu, Luming]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii", Size: 806 bytes --]

 
>
>I think I have found an acpi bug.  How do I report it?

File it in ACPI category on bugzilla.kernel.org, if you are sure it is
ACPI bug.

>What logs, kernel debug parameters to enhance logs, etc.
>are important to the acpi developers?
>

Just need the information that can clearly describe the problem.

>I got acpi working (finally) on ... notebook PC.  Does anyone else
>care?  Should I report success to linux-on-laptops or tuxmobile?

Great, Post it on acpi ML.

Thanks,
Luming


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