Re: problem with cpu eating too much power, prize given if solved

["Keld Jørn Simonsen" <keld-6PR53cSIHaE@public.gmane.org>]

On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 10:16:31PM +0800, Michael Frank wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 00:11:11 +0200, Pavel Machek <pavel-+ZI9xUNit7I@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> >Hi!
> >
> >>>>Many times I just want to read the screen, eg emails or documents,
> >>>>and then still the cpu will be in idle mode, where
> >>>>it uses 7.5 W out of the about 15 W that the whole machine uses.
> >>>>I have found out from Intel data sheets that my
> >>>>Mobile Intel Celeron 2.0 GHz CPU consumes 7.5 W in idle loop/
> >>>>stop grant/sleep states, (and 5.0 W i deep sleep state).
> >>>>
> >>>>So I would like to have the CPU stopped completely (consuming 0 W)
> >>>>while I still could read the screen. In that way I should
> >>>>be able to have about double the lifetime on the battery,
> >>>>going to about 7 hours from the 3.5 hours I have now.
> >>>>
> >>>>I would like the machine to wake up again by any keystroke
> >>>>on the keyboard or mouse input. I would like the input to be
> >>>>reacted upon (not just used to wake up the system, and
> >>>>then forgotten).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>S1 is what you want... but... if you get what you asked for,
> >>>do you realize that for example clock would not update on the desktop
> >>>in this mode?
> >>
> >>Which hardware can power down the CPU on its own?
> >
> >I thought that CPU powered down is pretty much definition S1.
> >
> 
> Please refer to http://acpi.sourceforge.net/documentation/sleep.html
> and ACPI spec 2.0a around Page 216
> 
> "Sleep States
> 	S1 - "Stopgrant"
> 	Power to cpu is maintained, but no instructions are executed.
> 	The CPU halts itself and may shut down many of its internal
> 	 components. In Microsoft Windows, the "Standby" command
> 	is associated with this state by default.
> "

Well, I think what I want is S2, from the same document:

     S2

     While defined in the spec, this state is not currently in use. It
     resembles S3 with the qualification that some devices are permitted to
     remain on.

     S3 - "Suspend to RAM"

     All power to the cpu is shut off, and the contents of its registers are
     flushed to RAM, which remains on. In Microsoft Windows, the "Standby"
     command can be associated with this state if enabled in the BIOS.
     Because it requires a high degree of coordination between the cpu,
     chipset, devices, OS, BIOS, and OS device drivers, this system state is
     the most prone to errors and instability.
     Pavel Machek has created a small document with some hints how to solve
     problems with S3. You can find it in the kernel sources at
     Documentation/power/tricks.txt.
     S3 is currently _not_ supported by the 2.4.x kernel series in Linux.


I would like the CPU to power down, save things in memory, and then
still have the screen and associated hardware on, and possibly also the
keyboard and mouse if that is needed to capture an ACPI event, including
the actual keystroke. This seems to be S2. I am not sure if all of S2
needs to be implemented to do what I asked for, I just would like the
functionality I described.

> If you look at the original post, S1 "Stopgrant" costs 5W on his celeron. 
> It takes a lot
> more on many 90nm chips. I read in the Centrino datasheet that it can draw 
> 15W
> stopgrant at  _maximum_ vcore!!!. The maximum  possible power consumption 
> is only 25W!.
> Now, that is life with modern CMOS, leakage is most of the power 
> consumption....
> I think it will improve but 1:3 is the best you can expect for multi GHZ 
> CPU's.

According to that, then what I ask for could also be beneficial to
centrino CPU's. 

> So again, which (mainboard/notebook) HW does depower the CPU and keeps the 
> rest running ?

I thought this was something that most mainboards would support, given
that we make the appropiate SW in the kernel. 

Another thing is that if a mainboard/BIOS supports ACPI, then it should
actually support all of ACPI, including S2 support. Or am I wrong?

> As to ACPI there should be a S2.5 state, or a S3 extension to power down 
> the CPU and run the rest...

I thought S2 was actually powering down the cpu, saving all registers
and things in memory, like S3, and then leaving some devices on. As I have read it,
this is clean S2, and not a 2.5 level. But I am not an ACPI expert.

best regards
keld


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