what is the worst laptop atm?

what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

Hi,

Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?

I'm thinking about a new ACER so that I could work on the smartbattery
support, but well maybe there is other stuff more interresting?

Thanks,

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Jeroen Wijnhout]

On Monday 27 December 2004 17:52, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?

Well, that is certainly an interesting thought! Usually people want to have a 
good working laptop ;-)

I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be so 
delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a good buy 
(after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).

best,
Jeroen


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 06:00:30PM +0100, Jeroen Wijnhout wrote:
> On Monday 27 December 2004 17:52, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> > to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> 
> Well, that is certainly an interesting thought! Usually people want to have a 
> good working laptop ;-)

It's not interresting if all work as expected ;)

> I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be so 
> delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a good buy 
> (after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).

Does that one fail S3 btw?

Thanks,

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Johan Vromans]

Bruno Ducrot <ducrot-kk6yZipjEM5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> writes:

>> I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be so 
>> delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a good buy 
>> (after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).

+1

> Does that one fail S3 btw?

I have not succeeded in getting it going, after several experiments
with 2.6.9 and 2.6.10, and several patches. 
So that would be another intersting thing to work out :-).

-- Johan


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Sergio Monteiro Basto]

Hi, Bruno 
Microstar MD 9648 :)

http://bugme.osdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2565
for more details 

happy year !

On Mon, 2004-12-27 at 17:52 +0100, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> 
> I'm thinking about a new ACER so that I could work on the smartbattery
> support, but well maybe there is other stuff more interresting?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
-- 
Sérgio M.B.



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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Pedro Venda]

Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> 
> I'm thinking about a new ACER so that I could work on the smartbattery
> support, but well maybe there is other stuff more interresting?

hello bruno,

I'd advise the travelmate 4001, but as a good laptop, not as a bad one :-p

Seriously, you must admit your oppinion/request is peculiar. Glad some 
people think of hardware that way: "I want to buy the worse to make it 
better" :-)

the 4001 is serious value for money (at least in portugal) and it 
definately has a smart battery.

the 4500 series are also good laptops, but as far as smart batteries are 
concerned, I don't know.

regards,
pedro venda.
-- 
Pedro João Lopes Venda
email: pjlv-aHmAgkVUFT6Joy8PIJZ9VA@public.gmane.org
http://arrakis.dhis.org


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Jeroen Wijnhout]

On Monday 27 December 2004 18:12, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> > I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be
> > so delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a
> > good buy (after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).
>
> Does that one fail S3 btw?
>

Didn't try that yet (I'm not sure how risky this is for my laptop).

best,
Jeroen


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[ultrakorne]

Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> 
> I'm thinking about a new ACER so that I could work on the smartbattery
> support, but well maybe there is other stuff more interresting?
> 
> Thanks,
> 

i have an acer tm 4501lci , it has a sb on it...
for S3, i tryed only once, and freeze all..
i ll try again when i have more time to spend


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 08:12:22PM +0000, Pedro Venda wrote:
> Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> >to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> >
> >I'm thinking about a new ACER so that I could work on the smartbattery
> >support, but well maybe there is other stuff more interresting?
> 
> hello bruno,
> 
> I'd advise the travelmate 4001, but as a good laptop, not as a bad one :-p
> Seriously, you must admit your oppinion/request is peculiar. Glad some 
> people think of hardware that way: "I want to buy the worse to make it 
> better" :-)

Indeed.  The fact that Linux do not support smartbattery yet is not ACER
fault.

ACPI under Linux is now mature but still have some trouble though,
or lack of functionality.  It's interresting to track those problems and
it's better to have the hardware to do so.

> the 4001 is serious value for money (at least in portugal) and it 
> definately has a smart battery.
> 
> the 4500 series are also good laptops, but as far as smart batteries are 
> concerned, I don't know.

Thanks,

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Pedro Venda]

Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 06:00:30PM +0100, Jeroen Wijnhout wrote:
> 
>>On Monday 27 December 2004 17:52, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
>>>to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
>>
>>Well, that is certainly an interesting thought! Usually people want to have a 
>>good working laptop ;-)
> 
> 
> It's not interresting if all work as expected ;)
> 
> 
>>I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be so 
>>delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a good buy 
>>(after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).
> 
> 
> Does that one fail S3 btw?

I've tried echo "3" /proc/acpi/sleep and it didn't hang... it also 
didn't sleep though...

It just wakes up immediatelly after suspending. I suspect the radeonfb 
had something to do with it. Later I'll send some dmesg for analysis.

regards,
pedro venda.

-- 
Pedro João Lopes Venda
email: pjlv-aHmAgkVUFT6Joy8PIJZ9VA@public.gmane.org
http://arrakis.dhis.org


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Johan Vromans]

Bruno Ducrot <ducrot-kk6yZipjEM5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Indeed.  The fact that Linux do not support smartbattery yet is not ACER
> fault.

Actually, I've been told that ACER is payed by Microsoft for not
helping Linux support. Yes, it's hearsay but it sounded reliable to me
at the time.

-- Johan


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Re: Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Pedro Venda]

Johan Vromans wrote:
> Bruno Ducrot <ducrot-kk6yZipjEM5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> writes:
> 
> 
>>Indeed.  The fact that Linux do not support smartbattery yet is not ACER
>>fault.
> 
> 
> Actually, I've been told that ACER is payed by Microsoft for not
> helping Linux support. Yes, it's hearsay but it sounded reliable to me
> at the time.

sounds like conspiracy theory to me. nevertheless, I don't find it 
impossible, just very unlikely.

regards,
pedro venda.
-- 
Pedro João Lopes Venda
email: pjlv-aHmAgkVUFT6Joy8PIJZ9VA@public.gmane.org
http://arrakis.dhis.org


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > > Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> > > to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> > 
> > Well, that is certainly an interesting thought! Usually people want to have a 
> > good working laptop ;-)
> 
> It's not interresting if all work as expected ;)
> 
> > I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be so 
> > delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a good buy 
> > (after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).
> 
> Does that one fail S3 btw?

I've seen other Acer notebooks, and they failed not only S3 but also
S4 (aka swsusp platform). Only S5 worked.

Other interesting machines are "compaq evo n620c" (thermal problems,
no S3, no S4, and probably lots of others.

								Pavel
-- 
People were complaining that M$ turns users into beta-testers...
...jr ghea gurz vagb qrirybcref, naq gurl frrz gb yvxr vg gung jnl!


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Re: Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > Indeed.  The fact that Linux do not support smartbattery yet is not ACER
> > fault.
> 
> Actually, I've been told that ACER is payed by Microsoft for not
> helping Linux support. Yes, it's hearsay but it sounded reliable to me
> at the time.

I do not think above is true. Acer wants to have their batteries
working in linux, they just do not want to hack their BIOSen.

								Pavel
-- 
People were complaining that M$ turns users into beta-testers...
...jr ghea gurz vagb qrirybcref, naq gurl frrz gb yvxr vg gung jnl!


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Nigel Cunningham]

Hi.

On Tue, 2004-12-28 at 03:52, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Due to hw failure, I'm thinking buying a new laptop.  I would like
> to know what is the worst laptop with ACPI atm?
> 
> I'm thinking about a new ACER so that I could work on the smartbattery
> support, but well maybe there is other stuff more interresting?
> 
> Thanks,

Don't forget to get an HT machine so you can deal with SMP issues too :>

Nigel
-- 
Nigel Cunningham
Cyclades Software Engineer
Canberra, Australia

http://www.cyclades.com

+61 (2) 6292 8028
+61 (417) 100 574



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Re: Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

> > Actually, I've been told that ACER is payed by Microsoft for not
> > helping Linux support. Yes, it's hearsay but it sounded reliable to me
> > at the time.
> 
> I do not think above is true. Acer wants to have their batteries
> working in linux, they just do not want to hack their BIOSen.

Please do not feed the FUD.

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bernard Blackham]

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 02:31:38PM +0100, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> > > Actually, I've been told that ACER is payed by Microsoft for not
> > > helping Linux support. Yes, it's hearsay but it sounded reliable to me
> > > at the time.
> > 
> > I do not think above is true. Acer wants to have their batteries
> > working in linux, they just do not want to hack their BIOSen.

Not wanting to add FUD, but mere fact here - I have an Acer
TravelMate 4052. Here is an excerpt from my original DSDT. Pay
careful attention to ECDY.

--snip--
Name(ECDY, 0x3)

[...]

Scope(\_SB_) {
    Device(PCI0) {
        Method(_INI) {
           If(LEqual(SCMP(\_OS_, "Microsoft Windows"), Zero)) {
               [...]
               Store(0x0, ECDY)
           }

    [... snip ...]

    Method(_BST) {
        Store("==Main Battery Status _BST==", Debug)
        If(LGreater(ECDY, 0x0)) {
            Decrement(ECDY)
            Notify(\_SB_.PCI0.LPC0.BAT1, 0x81)
        }
        If(LAnd(ECOK(), LEqual(ECDY, 0x0))) {
            [ ... main battery info function ... ]
--snip--

In non-ASL terms, ECDY is a counter that is initialised to 3. If the
OS starts with "Microsoft Windows", it is set to 0 instead. And the
DSDT will refuse to return the battery state the first n times,
where n is the value of ECDY.

This was quite an issue for me, as the daemon which hibernates my
laptop when the battery is low would hibernate the machine
immediately upon booting.

Is there a good reason why a DSDT should not return a battery status
the first 3 times to OS's other than Microsoft Windows? Maybe there
is, but fixing that "feature" hasn't broken anything yet for me. I'd
be interested to know if there might be a good reason though.

Full DSDT at http://dagobah.ucc.asn.au/things/tm4052.html if anybody
is interested.

Bernard.

-- 
 Bernard Blackham <bernard at blackham dot com dot au>


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Re: Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 09:44:45PM +0800, Bernard Blackham wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 02:31:38PM +0100, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> > > > Actually, I've been told that ACER is payed by Microsoft for not
> > > > helping Linux support. Yes, it's hearsay but it sounded reliable to me
> > > > at the time.
> > > 
> > > I do not think above is true. Acer wants to have their batteries
> > > working in linux, they just do not want to hack their BIOSen.
> 
> Not wanting to add FUD, but mere fact here - I have an Acer
> TravelMate 4052. Here is an excerpt from my original DSDT. Pay
> careful attention to ECDY.
> 

This is a well known workaround for Microsoft Windows NT 4.0.

So you are complaining that Acer try to make this laptop working with
an old OS ?

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

Hi Pavel,

On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 06:33:59PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> I've seen other Acer notebooks, and they failed not only S3 but also
> S4 (aka swsusp platform). Only S5 worked.
> 
> Other interesting machines are "compaq evo n620c" (thermal problems,
> no S3, no S4, and probably lots of others.

IIRC the thermal problem is fixed by DSDT override.  I'm not
sure if we can make more for that one, other than telling HP to fix
this bios (and its possible there is a bios upgrade available, who
knows).

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> > I've seen other Acer notebooks, and they failed not only S3 but also
> > S4 (aka swsusp platform). Only S5 worked.
> > 
> > Other interesting machines are "compaq evo n620c" (thermal problems,
> > no S3, no S4, and probably lots of others.
> 
> IIRC the thermal problem is fixed by DSDT override.  I'm not
> sure if we can make more for that one, other than telling HP to fix
> this bios (and its possible there is a bios upgrade available, who
> knows).

Do you have a pointer for DSDT patch? HP was willing to take bug
reports, and if patch is "obviously correct", they'll probably apply
it to the next BIOS...
								Pavel
-- 
People were complaining that M$ turns users into beta-testers...
...jr ghea gurz vagb qrirybcref, naq gurl frrz gb yvxr vg gung jnl!


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bruno Ducrot]

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 05:28:57PM +0100, Pavel Machek wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> > > I've seen other Acer notebooks, and they failed not only S3 but also
> > > S4 (aka swsusp platform). Only S5 worked.
> > > 
> > > Other interesting machines are "compaq evo n620c" (thermal problems,
> > > no S3, no S4, and probably lots of others.
> > 
> > IIRC the thermal problem is fixed by DSDT override.  I'm not
> > sure if we can make more for that one, other than telling HP to fix
> > this bios (and its possible there is a bios upgrade available, who
> > knows).
> 
> Do you have a pointer for DSDT patch? HP was willing to take bug
> reports, and if patch is "obviously correct", they'll probably apply
> it to the next BIOS...

http://acpi.sourceforge.net/dsdt/view.php?id=288

(unfortunately, it's not a patch and the original is 'old').

-- 
Bruno Ducrot

--  Which is worse:  ignorance or apathy?
--  Don't know.  Don't care.


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Re: Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Bernard Blackham]

On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 03:55:17PM +0100, Bruno Ducrot wrote:
> > > > I do not think above is true. Acer wants to have their batteries
> > > > working in linux, they just do not want to hack their BIOSen.
> > 
> > Not wanting to add FUD, but mere fact here - I have an Acer
> > TravelMate 4052. Here is an excerpt from my original DSDT. Pay
> > careful attention to ECDY.
> 
> This is a well known workaround for Microsoft Windows NT 4.0.
> 
> So you are complaining that Acer try to make this laptop working with
> an old OS ?

More that I was idly curious if there was a good reason for doing
so. Googling about for this well-known workaround doesn't seem to
have dug much up. If you've got a reference handy, it'd fulfill my
curiosity to see it. :)

TIA,

Bernard.

-- 
 Bernard Blackham <bernard at blackham dot com dot au>


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Johan Vromans]

Bruno Ducrot <ducrot-kk6yZipjEM5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> This is a well known workaround for Microsoft Windows NT 4.0.

My DSDT (TravelMate4001WLMi) has:

    Device(PCI0) {
        Name(MYOS, 0x2)
        Method(_INI) {
            Store(0x1, \_SB_.D1SJ)
            Store(0x2, MYOS)
            If(LEqual(SizeOf(\_OS_), 0x14)) {
                Store(0x1, MYOS)
                Store(0x07d0, OSYS)
                Store(0x1, \_SB_.W2KF)
                If(CondRefOf(_OSI, Local0)) {
==>                    If(\_OSI("Windows 2001")) {
                        Store(0x3, MYOS)
                        Store(0x07d1, OSYS)
                        Store(0x3, \_SB_.W2KF)
                    }
                }
            }

Also a known workaround?

-- Johan


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Zdzisław A. Kaleta]

Dnia poniedziałek 27 grudnia 2004 18:12, Bruno Ducrot napisał:
> It's not interresting if all work as expected ;)
>
> > I'm using a Acer 4001WLmi (supposedly with a smart-battery). I would be
> > so delighted if I could finally see my battery status. Besides, it is a
> > good buy (after all you do want to have a working computer, right?).
>
> Does that one fail S3 btw?
I have Acer TM 4001 WLMI runing debian testing/unstable mixing.
After "echo "3" > /proc/acpi/sleep"
it first claim that the mysql can't be stopped and after I stoped it manualy 
then it try to sleep but end with endless info:
"atkbd.c: Spurious ACK on isa0060/serio0. Some program [***] may be trying 
access hardware directly"
It suggested X11 but the same is when no kdm, xdm or gdm is anabled.
If you suggested any other checkig I am ready to try it. ;-/
-- 
z.a.kaleta (sanskryt), registered Linux User #279350


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Norbert Preining]

On Die, 04 Jan 2005, Zdzis?aw A. Kaleta wrote:
> "atkbd.c: Spurious ACK on isa0060/serio0. Some program [***] may be trying 
> access hardware directly"
> It suggested X11 but the same is when no kdm, xdm or gdm is anabled.
> If you suggested any other checkig I am ready to try it. ;-/

Do you have acerhk loaded?

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
sip:preining-5G14tY4QmKiDqU6vP1vexV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org                             +43 (0) 59966-690018
gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094      fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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LUTON (n.)
The horseshoe-shaped rug which goes around a lavatory seat.
			--- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff


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Re: what is the worst laptop atm?

[Zdzisław A. Kaleta]

Dnia wtorek 04 stycznia 2005 20:33, Norbert Preining napisał:
> On Die, 04 Jan 2005, Zdzis?aw A. Kaleta wrote:
> > "atkbd.c: Spurious ACK on isa0060/serio0. Some program [***] may be
> > trying access hardware directly"
> > It suggested X11 but the same is when no kdm, xdm or gdm is anabled.
> > If you suggested any other checkig I am ready to try it. ;-/
>
> Do you have acerhk loaded?
>
> Best wishes
>
> Norbert
No, the acerhk module is not loaded. 

-- 
z.a.kaleta (sanskryt), registered Linux User #279350


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