C2, C3 and bus master activity

C2, C3 and bus master activity

[pumpkin]

Hello

My CPU does not enter C3 if i run the stock configuration. Way too much bus 
master activity. I want to find out what is causing it. Any hints how to do 
that ?

I found one possible cause for some of the activity. Without X i have a 50:50 
mix between C2 and C3. Using the vesa-driver the mix stays at 50:50. Using 
the radeon-driver (dri disabled) the CPU stops using C3.

the facts in case somebody already has a idea:
- ibm R51
- PentiumM 725 (1.6GHz)
- Intel 855PM chipset
- radeon 7500 mobil
- xorg 6.8.2
- kernel 2.6.11-1-686 (debian stock-kernel)

thanks.


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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Bob Lees]

Hi

In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then both 
my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.

Laptops are Compaq EVO 800c and IBM T42p both running SUSE 9.3 with a stock 
SuSE kernel 2.6.11-suse modified

Bob

On Tuesday 19 July 2005 19:50, pumpkin wrote:
> Hello
>
> My CPU does not enter C3 if i run the stock configuration. Way too much bus
> master activity. I want to find out what is causing it. Any hints how to do
> that ?
>
> I found one possible cause for some of the activity. Without X i have a
> 50:50 mix between C2 and C3. Using the vesa-driver the mix stays at 50:50.
> Using the radeon-driver (dri disabled) the CPU stops using C3.
>
> the facts in case somebody already has a idea:
> - ibm R51
> - PentiumM 725 (1.6GHz)
> - Intel 855PM chipset
> - radeon 7500 mobil
> - xorg 6.8.2
> - kernel 2.6.11-1-686 (debian stock-kernel)
>
> thanks.
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
> Acpi-devel mailing list
> Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel

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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[pumpkin]

Hello

I tested this by removing kernel/driver/usb/* and rebuilding initrd (just to 
be sure). It did not change anything for console (still 50:50 between C2 and 
C3) and made Xorg crash pretty hard.

Do you think removing all the other external buses (Firewire, ethernet, 
WLAN ,..) would change something ? 

Could cpufreqd be part of the problem ?

Thanks,

On Tuesday 19 July 2005 22:18, Bob Lees wrote:
> Hi
>
> In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then
> both my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.
>
> Laptops are Compaq EVO 800c and IBM T42p both running SUSE 9.3 with a stock
> SuSE kernel 2.6.11-suse modified
>
> Bob
>
> On Tuesday 19 July 2005 19:50, pumpkin wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > My CPU does not enter C3 if i run the stock configuration. Way too much
> > bus master activity. I want to find out what is causing it. Any hints how
> > to do that ?
> >
> > I found one possible cause for some of the activity. Without X i have a
> > 50:50 mix between C2 and C3. Using the vesa-driver the mix stays at
> > 50:50. Using the radeon-driver (dri disabled) the CPU stops using C3.
> >
> > the facts in case somebody already has a idea:
> > - ibm R51
> > - PentiumM 725 (1.6GHz)
> > - Intel 855PM chipset
> > - radeon 7500 mobil
> > - xorg 6.8.2
> > - kernel 2.6.11-1-686 (debian stock-kernel)
> >
> > thanks.
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
> > from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
> > informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
> > speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7477&alloc_id=16492&op=click
> > _______________________________________________
> > Acpi-devel mailing list
> > Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel


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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Janosch Machowinski]

pumpkin wrote:
> Hello
> 
> I tested this by removing kernel/driver/usb/* and rebuilding initrd (just to 
> be sure). It did not change anything for console (still 50:50 between C2 and 
> C3) and made Xorg crash pretty hard.
> 
> Do you think removing all the other external buses (Firewire, ethernet, 
> WLAN ,..) would change something ? 
> 
Sometimes an active WLAN driver causes bus master activity...
You also should not use an USB Mouse...

And by the way, what's wrong with 50:50 C2 C3 ?
This seems pretty normal to me.

> Could cpufreqd be part of the problem ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> On Tuesday 19 July 2005 22:18, Bob Lees wrote:
> 
>>Hi
>>
>>In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then
>>both my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.
>>
>>Laptops are Compaq EVO 800c and IBM T42p both running SUSE 9.3 with a stock
>>SuSE kernel 2.6.11-suse modified
>>
>>Bob
>>


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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[pumpkin]

Hello

> Sometimes an active WLAN driver causes bus master activity...

Inserted USB, removed WLAN and ieee1394. C2/C3-ratio dropps to 10:90 in 
console-mode. That's better. I don't mind removing ieee1349, but without 
networking the laptop is more or less useless. So i'm f***ed. 

> You also should not use an USB Mouse...

No USB in use except the 4 root-hubs (the trackpoint is using PS/2).

> And by the way, what's wrong with 50:50 C2 C3 ?
> This seems pretty normal to me.

I have seen 10:90 on AthlonXP-systems running XFree. That's what i want, even 
if it is a long way to go.

So i only have 2 problems left:

- Is it possible to reconfigure WLAN to cause less Bus Master Activity ? (i 
will ask the ipw2200 guys and grok the code)

- and why is the radeon driver causing ffffffff-Activity ?

Running x without radeon driver is not an option. The radeon driver enables 
powerplay, which in turn saves quite a bit.


Thanks,

> > On Tuesday 19 July 2005 22:18, Bob Lees wrote:
> >>Hi
> >>
> >>In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then
> >>both my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.
> >>
> >>Laptops are Compaq EVO 800c and IBM T42p both running SUSE 9.3 with a
> >> stock SuSE kernel 2.6.11-suse modified
> >>
> >>Bob
>
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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Johan Vromans]

Bob Lees <bob-l+PWtdWbHAsG2Il/BtU0GPXRex20P6io@public.gmane.org> writes:

> In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then both 
> my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.

On my laptop (Acer Travelmate 4001WLMi[1]) it's just the uhci-hcd driver.
Unloading it enables C3 again.

-- Johan

[1] http://www.squirrel.nl/people/jvromans/articles/TM4001WLMi/


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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[pumpkin]

Hello

i have made some experiments and now i'm scared shitless:

Removing and reinserting ieee1394, eth1394 and ohic1394 stops all bus master 
activity, even under X. USB and WLAN are active. Now the CPU stays at C4, a 
mode which didn't even show up before.

Now one battery charge should be enough for 4 hours. IBM says 3 and a half 
hours. That's why i love linux.

Thanks,

On Wednesday 20 July 2005 19:21, pumpkin wrote:
> Hello
>
> > Sometimes an active WLAN driver causes bus master activity...
>
> Inserted USB, removed WLAN and ieee1394. C2/C3-ratio dropps to 10:90 in
> console-mode. That's better. I don't mind removing ieee1349, but without
> networking the laptop is more or less useless. So i'm f***ed.
>
> > You also should not use an USB Mouse...
>
> No USB in use except the 4 root-hubs (the trackpoint is using PS/2).
>
> > And by the way, what's wrong with 50:50 C2 C3 ?
> > This seems pretty normal to me.
>
> I have seen 10:90 on AthlonXP-systems running XFree. That's what i want,
> even if it is a long way to go.
>
> So i only have 2 problems left:
>
> - Is it possible to reconfigure WLAN to cause less Bus Master Activity ? (i
> will ask the ipw2200 guys and grok the code)
>
> - and why is the radeon driver causing ffffffff-Activity ?
>
> Running x without radeon driver is not an option. The radeon driver enables
> powerplay, which in turn saves quite a bit.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> > > On Tuesday 19 July 2005 22:18, Bob Lees wrote:
> > >>Hi
> > >>
> > >>In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then
> > >>both my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.
> > >>
> > >>Laptops are Compaq EVO 800c and IBM T42p both running SUSE 9.3 with a
> > >> stock SuSE kernel 2.6.11-suse modified
> > >>
> > >>Bob
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Acpi-devel mailing list
> > Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel
>
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Re: Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Bob Lees]

I agree with Johan, I think it was the uhci-hcd driver which caused the 
problem.  I must admit that I don't have wireless running when I shut 
everything off so that may also be a problem.

Unfortunately its the uhci-hcd driver which allows me to use a usb mouse so I 
would like to know how the usb driver could be used and still have C3/4 (C4 
on the IBM)

Bob

On Wednesday 20 July 2005 20:05, Johan Vromans wrote:
> Bob Lees <bob-l+PWtdWbHAsG2Il/BtU0GPXRex20P6io@public.gmane.org> writes:
> > In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then
> > both my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.
>
> On my laptop (Acer Travelmate 4001WLMi[1]) it's just the uhci-hcd driver.
> Unloading it enables C3 again.
>
> -- Johan
>
> [1] http://www.squirrel.nl/people/jvromans/articles/TM4001WLMi/
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
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> Acpi-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/acpi-devel



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Re: Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Janosch Machowinski]

Bob Lees wrote:
> I agree with Johan, I think it was the uhci-hcd driver which caused the 
> problem.  I must admit that I don't have wireless running when I shut 
> everything off so that may also be a problem.
> 
> Unfortunately its the uhci-hcd driver which allows me to use a usb mouse so I 
> would like to know how the usb driver could be used and still have C3/4 (C4 
> on the IBM)
Actually ff you use an USB device, you can never use the C3 or C4 mode 
of your CPU. USB devices just cause busmaster activity, and as long as 
the kernel detecs busmaster activity, it stops taking the CPU in 
anything behind C2.

If you want to know more please read ACPIspec3.0
8.1.4 Processor Power State C3
on page 253 (the number in the document / the pdfreader says it's page 273)

    Janosch
> 
> Bob
> 
> On Wednesday 20 July 2005 20:05, Johan Vromans wrote:
> 
>>


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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Pavel Machek]

Hi!

> In a word USB.  I don't fully understand why, but if I disable USB then both 
> my laptops will go into C3 or C4, with USB enabled stays in C2.

Misdesigned USB controllers do DMA all the time... I think it is
uhci-specific problem.
								Pavel

-- 
teflon -- maybe it is a trademark, but it should not be.


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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[Volker Braun]

> - and why is the radeon driver causing ffffffff-Activity ?

Disable dri (comment out the 'Load  "dri"' in xorg.conf). Then the radeon
driver will no longer make pointless bus master transfers. I have no idea
why dri causes the bus master activity, but it should not. 

Volker

PS: My CPU switches to C3/C4 even with ipw2200 running (2915a/b/g card).





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Re: C2, C3 and bus master activity

[pumpkin]

Hello

> This is interesting, I have a theory why the IBM laptops keep crashing
> when you use the the deeper sleep states. 

Well,... i don't really understand what is going on here. 

From time-to-time Xorg tries to load and crashs even before starting the new 
logfile. But if it gets past that point everything works fine. And even with 
the stock kernel and every module (including ieee1394...) loaded the CPU 
enters C4. The BIOS/CMOS/Laptop... whatever has changed it's behavior after 
my first tests. Maybe it has something to do with running of AC or battery.

Once i have the time to an intensive test with all combinations (w/ and w/o 
battery, w/ and w/o AC, w/ and w/o 1394 at startup ... ) i will send you my 
results. Any logs/files that are important to you ?

> Can you try out something for 
> me ?

Sure, but not today. I will recompile the kernel once again but with debugging 
enabled. 

cu

> First try to load or do something, that would cause your laptop to
> disable the C4 state. If this hapens, you shuld see in your logs (as
> long as you compiled your kernel with debug messages) something like
> \_SB.CPU0, 0x81. This means, that your laptop has changed the available
> C-States. (this should also appear, if you unload eee1394, eth1394 and
> ohic1394)
>
> I saw some places in the ACPI code, where the C-States are not correctly
> deleted after this event, and my theory is that this actually crashes
> some IBM laptops.



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