Re: laptop turns itself off

Re: laptop turns itself off

[Bob McElrath]

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Éric Brunet [ebrunet-l5PIGlIYzrxGWvitb5QawA@public.gmane.org] wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 01:20:39PM -0500, Bob McElrath wrote:
> > I have a laptop that spontaneously turns itself off about once or twice
> > a day.  It is an all-ACPI model from Compal model ACL00.  I understand
> > it is equivalent to a Toshiba Satellite 3000 series.  The computer
> > itself is the Emperor Linux model from http://www.aslab.com/.
> 
> I have the same problem with toshiba S3000-X11.

X11?  As in X-Windows?  Is that the model number?  Interesting... ;)

> It happens even when the computer is cool. However, I think it is related to temperature:

Mine seems to bounce between 50 and 60 degrees C.  Seems a bit hot to
me.  I'd like to keep the fan on and keep it below 50...

> I have spent some time looking at the temperature of the computer, as
> reported by Bruno Ducrot's tosh300k module (the DSDT is buggued, so there
> is no thermal zone unless you change it, which I haven't done yet)

Ah, so that's why my thermal doesn't work... :(

> The temperature behaves most of the time nicely: it increases slowly from
> the lower value to the higher, then goes down quickly as the fan gets on.
> However, at some times, the sensor report some aberrant value; like 15 or
> 20 or more degrees (Centigrade) off. It lasts for one or two seconds and
> goes back to normal.
> 
> I believe that at some point, the grossely incorrect reported temperature
> triggers the emergency shutdown.
> 
> I don't know what I should do. Is there a way to disable the emergency
> shutdown (the fan works correctly, thank you) ? Is it possible to make
> the emergency procedure average the temperature for 5 seconds before
> deciding to shut down ? Is there a way to fix the sensors so that they
> don't report wrong values ?
> 
> Of course, the other possibility is that the shutdown has nothing to do
> with temperature, and that the wrong values reported by the sensors are
> just a coincidence.

This is very interesting information.  I just discovered (thanks to a
post on this list) the omnibook tools:
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/omke
Which work with my laptop (after some patching to recognize the ACL00 --
which I will send to the maintainer shortly), and are able to report
temperature.  I also just wrote a script to log the temperature every
second:
    #!/usr/bin/perl -w

    use IO::Handle;

    open(OUT, ">>templog") || die "Unable to open ~/templog";
    OUT->autoflush(1);

    while(1) {
        chomp($date=`date`);
        chomp($temp=`cat /proc/omnibook/cpu`);
        chomp(@performance=`cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/performance`);
        foreach $line (@performance) {
            if($line =~ /^.*\*(P[01]): *(\d+) MHz.*/) { $acpiperf = $1; $acpimhz = $2; }
        }
        chomp(@cpuinfo=`cat /proc/cpuinfo`);
        foreach $line (@cpuinfo) {
            if($line =~ /^cpu MHz.*: ([\d\.]+).*/) { $cpuinfomhz = $1; }
        }
        $outstr = "$date: $temp, CPU speed: $acpiperf($acpimhz) $cpuinfomhz\n";
        print OUT $outstr;
        print $outstr;
        system("/bin/sync");
        sleep 1;
    }

I will let you know if I see the wild temperature variations you mention.

Right now ACPI does not recognize the fan on this laptop.  Looking at my dsdt,
it seems that there is stuff in there about reading/writing the fan status.
Presumably if ACPI took control of the fan and temperature reading, the BIOS
would stop controlling it.  For instance, with the omnibook tools above, as
soon as they take control of the volume buttons, they stop working -- they're
interepreted as keypresses.  I had to write X11 key handlers (WindowMaker menu
items with a keyboard shortcut) to call aumix to change the volume.

I wonder if all tosh3k/ACL00/Omnibook users see this problem, or if we
have a buggy temperature sensor/controller.

Incidentally, the omnibook tools allow all the extra front buttons to work.
They show up as keypresses.  Now I have them hooked up to xmms.  ;)

What processor state have you been using (P0/P1)?  Have you tried both?
I notice more crashes when in state P1 but it also crashes in P0.  I
wonder if this is related.  (There were lots of reported Speedstep
related crashes around 10/2001)

I also just compiled the cpufreq patch.  Hopefully this will fix linux'
timer when the speed changes.  (in state P1 /proc/cpuinfo still reports
the P0 speed)  Dunno if this has anything to do with anything...

Cheers,
-- Bob

Bob McElrath (rsmcelrath-9geRo0GdX4mkVGS65fRQmodd74u8MsAO@public.gmane.org) 
Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison, Department of Physics

"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
    --James Madison, April 20, 1795

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Re: laptop turns itself off

[Bob McElrath]

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Éric Brunet [ebrunet-l5PIGlIYzrxGWvitb5QawA@public.gmane.org] wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2002 at 03:17:37PM -0500, Bob McElrath wrote:
> > I will let you know if I see the wild temperature variations you mention.
> 
> Did you see them ?

No.  Many crashes later, I've never seen the odd temperatures you
mention.

> > Right now ACPI does not recognize the fan on this laptop.  Looking at my dsdt,
> > it seems that there is stuff in there about reading/writing the fan status.
> > Presumably if ACPI took control of the fan and temperature reading, the BIOS
> > would stop controlling it.  For instance, with the omnibook tools above, as
> 
> Maybe. I will try Bruno' patched dsdt. Or maybe I will try the bios
> update that toshiba europe proposes without any changelog.

I will probably try the patched dsdt next also.  There is no bios update
for my computer.  (It's bios is newer than the newest one on their web
site!)  Maybe I should put a toshiba BIOS on it.  I'm told my laptop is
equivalent to a Toshiba 3005-S304.

Also I was thinking to find the place in the acpi kernel code where it
is capable of turning the laptop off, and putting in a few debug
statements and a sync() so that it ends up in the logs.  Can anyone
point me to that location in the code?  ;)

Cheers,
-- Bob

Bob McElrath (rsmcelrath-9geRo0GdX4mkVGS65fRQmodd74u8MsAO@public.gmane.org) 
Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison, Department of Physics

"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
    --James Madison, April 20, 1795

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RE: laptop turns itself off

[Huw H]

I seem to have the same trouble, with my laptop turning itself off randomly
without warning. I have a Toshiba Satellite 3000 (model PS302A-00Q5k) and still
use the former (20020517) patch against 2.4.18. In addition I have installed
Bruno's dsdt table for the 3000-601, which as far as I could tell has identical
specs (excepting a 1.13GHz max clock as opposed to 1GHz). I also use the tosh3k
module to set the fan to keep the laptop at between 45-50C.

Time to upgrade kernel and get someone to patch my dsdt propperly I guess.

Huw

<h.hawkins-keaFvQtjc6i7NGdpmJTKYQ@public.gmane.org>



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Re: laptop turns itself off

[Bob McElrath]

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Huw H [hrhawk-JGs/UdohzUI@public.gmane.org] wrote:
> I seem to have the same trouble, with my laptop turning itself off randomly
> without warning. I have a Toshiba Satellite 3000 (model PS302A-00Q5k) and still
> use the former (20020517) patch against 2.4.18. In addition I have installed
> Bruno's dsdt table for the 3000-601, which as far as I could tell has identical
> specs (excepting a 1.13GHz max clock as opposed to 1GHz). I also use the tosh3k
> module to set the fan to keep the laptop at between 45-50C.
> 
> Time to upgrade kernel and get someone to patch my dsdt propperly I guess.

I just noticed today that it is not actually hung...

It appears to be up but only processing a clock tick once every few
minutes.  If I hit the keyboard, several minutes later the screen will
unblank.  My CPU meter on screen *has* changed on the screen in the last
1/2 hour of watching it.  And the clock is currently 24 minutes slow.
(it should have been accurate at the time of the "hang") There are log
messages on the screen too in my logtail from immediately before the
hang:
    exresnte-0103 [12] Ex_resolve_note_to_val: No object attached to node c16bfd68
    acpi_battery-0195 [07] acpi_battery_get_statu: Error evaluating _BST

I have not seen the turn-off behavior in some time, using kernel
2.4.20-pre5 and acpi from august.  (I will try the latest one soon Andy)

Anyone have any idea what could cause this kind of behavior?

Cheers,
-- Bob

Bob McElrath (rsmcelrath-9geRo0GdX4mkVGS65fRQmodd74u8MsAO@public.gmane.org) 
Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison, Department of Physics

    "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from
    these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in
    blood for centuries." -- James Madison


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Re: laptop turns itself off

[Bob McElrath]

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Ralf-P. Weinmann [ralf-HCprxmsOTPNg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org] wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> 
> I'm having exactly the same issue that you're having with your Compal, just
> with a Satellite 3000-514 here. The laptop came back from my Toshiba repair
> shop for the second time already. Both times the mainboard was swapped, I was
> told, altogether it was replaced three times, twice at the local Toshiba shop,
> once at Toshiba Europe in Regensburg. What happened before was that the machine
> would crash occasionally afterwards refuse to turn on again. The screen kept
> blank and a short beep-beep was sounded by the BIOS diagnostic routines, which
> according to the Phoenix site can be just about any frigging hardware error.
> 
> So now I get the machine back with system board #4 last Saturday and since then
> it keeps spontaneously turning off on me. Four times thus far, sometimes even
> when the laptop was damn cold. Coming back home this Saturday, the tosh-3k
> module showed incredibly low values (26 Celsius). Few minutes later, the
> machine turns itself off. I have not been able to reproduce this under Windows
> XP, I'd really love to hear from someone who has the same problem under XP,
> because I am not really sure whether it is an ACPI problem or whether it is
> related to something entirely different.
> 
> The new system board seems to have an updated BIOS with a release date of
> 2002/02/19. I'm really wondering what's going on.
> 
> I'm wondering whether it's worth to contact Toshiba on this again now, or
> whether I should wait till the mainboard fries again :)
> 
> On the ACPI mailing list you stated that your laptop doesn't manage to stay
> up for a week even if you have acpi=noacpi passed as an kernel option.
> Does it shut itself down or does it plain crash ?

Ralf-P. Weinmann [ralf-HCprxmsOTPNg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org] wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2002 at 11:51:42PM +0200, Ralf-P. Weinmann wrote:
> > Hi Bob,
> > [...]
> > when the laptop was damn cold. Coming back home this Saturday, the tosh-3k
> > module showed incredibly low values (26 Celsius). Few minutes later, the
> > machine turns itself off. I have not been able to reproduce this under Windows
> > XP, I'd really love to hear from someone who has the same problem under XP,
> > because I am not really sure whether it is an ACPI problem or whether it is
> > related to something entirely different.
> > [...]
> 
> Just a quick follow-up. I moved over part of the Java development environment
> for the project I'm working on to Windows XP today. The problem is apparent
> under Windows XP as well (the default install that came shipped with the
> notebook). I'd say it falls into the category "crappy hardware problem", I
> highly doubt it can be fixed by changing the AML code. But we'll see about
> that.
> 
> All I can say is: Toshiba, I want my money back. But that's for tomorrow.

For reference, my Compal ACL00 is equivalent to a Toshiba 3000-514 (I
believe, I could be wrong on the last 3 digits).  Compal manufactures
these laptops for Toshiba.

Based on the available information, I agree with Ralf, this is a
crappy-hardware problem.

We need to figure out which models of these laptops have this problem,
and whether the problem is universal to all of them, or a hardware bug
that can be fixed by swapping out the bad hardware (Ralf's experience
would seem to indicate universality...).  Does anyone know of someone
who has this laptop and does NOT have the turn-off/hang problem?  Bruno
you have probably had the most contact with Toshiba 3k users...

Secondly, we should all pursue remedies though the vendors that sold us
this crap.  I think a class action lawsuit would be appropriate, if they
are not willing to replace the laptops with working models.
Unfortunately, Compal appears to no longer be manufacturing this laptop.

Cheers,
-- Bob

Bob McElrath (rsmcelrath-9geRo0GdX4mkVGS65fRQmodd74u8MsAO@public.gmane.org) 
Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison, Department of Physics

    "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from
    these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in
    blood for centuries." -- James Madison


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Re: laptop turns itself off

[Ralf-P. Weinmann]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2002 at 10:00:11PM -0500, Bob McElrath wrote:
> [...]

> For reference, my Compal ACL00 is equivalent to a Toshiba 3000-514 (I
> believe, I could be wrong on the last 3 digits).  Compal manufactures
> these laptops for Toshiba.
> 
> Based on the available information, I agree with Ralf, this is a
> crappy-hardware problem.
> 
> We need to figure out which models of these laptops have this problem,
> and whether the problem is universal to all of them, or a hardware bug
> that can be fixed by swapping out the bad hardware (Ralf's experience
> would seem to indicate universality...).  Does anyone know of someone
> who has this laptop and does NOT have the turn-off/hang problem?  Bruno
> you have probably had the most contact with Toshiba 3k users...
> 
> Secondly, we should all pursue remedies though the vendors that sold us
> this crap.  I think a class action lawsuit would be appropriate, if they
> are not willing to replace the laptops with working models.
> Unfortunately, Compal appears to no longer be manufacturing this laptop.

I've got some more things you guys might want to look at. Googling for
'spontaneous shutdown' and similar terms, I found the HP business customer
discussion group, which contains quite an interesting thread about HP
Pavillions (ZT1130/ZT1145), the posting by a a Robert J. Koening being
especially insightful. See the following URL:

http://bizforums.itrc.hp.com/cm/QuestionAnswer/1,,0x3009237a4bc6d611abdb0090277a778c,00.html

To quote from it:

"[...] I summarize the substance of the one of the other threads I read.

 It was concluded by all that it was an overheating problem.

 People aimed small fans at their hp laptops and claimed to have remediated the
 problem.

 Others put tongue depressors under their laptops and removed piles a paper
 around the lap top  and claimed to have stopped the uninvited shutdowns by
 prompting better ventilation.

 But there was no compelling epiphany to explain the problem.

 However, I got the sense that the problem was more a false high-temperature
 reading than a real high-temperature problem.

 There was a lot of talk about whether the automatic fan was working when the
 intrusive shutdown occurred.

 The shut downs did not necessarily seem to take place when the fan was
 working.

 At the end of day, it was suggested by the hp overseer (who watches us writhe
 for a while before finally jumping in) that the new BIOS will cure the
 problem. [...]"

I'm not sure what ODM is supplying Hewlett-Packard for this machine, but as
we have learned before, some Omnibooks seem to be Compals as well so I would
not rule out the possibility that the Pavillion ZT11xx are as well. Maybe the
owner of one on this list can find out? I downloaded a BIOS image for it,
extracted and ran strings over the all.rom file, but it seems to look very
different, except for the Insyde signature on both of them.

Incidentially, Insyde Software seems to be providing ACPI firmware for ODMs
like Compal.  What a coincidence. See the following URL:

http://www.insydesw.com.tw/bios051002%20(%203-1).htm

Cheers,
Ralf

-- 
Ralf-P. Weinmann			HOME: r a l f @ f i m a l u k a . org
Student, Computer Science		 UNI:   r p w @ u n i . d e
Technical University of Darmstadt, Germany


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