Re: problem with cpu eating too much power, prize given if solved

["Michael Frank" <mhf-jjFNsPSvq+iXDw4h08c5KA@public.gmane.org>]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:37:54 +0200, Keld Jørn Simonsen <keld-6PR53cSIHaE@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 10:16:31PM +0800, Michael Frank wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 00:11:11 +0200, Pavel Machek <pavel-+ZI9xUNit7I@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi!
>> >
>> >>>>Many times I just want to read the screen, eg emails or documents,
>> >>>>and then still the cpu will be in idle mode, where
>> >>>>it uses 7.5 W out of the about 15 W that the whole machine uses.
>> >>>>I have found out from Intel data sheets that my
>> >>>>Mobile Intel Celeron 2.0 GHz CPU consumes 7.5 W in idle loop/
>> >>>>stop grant/sleep states, (and 5.0 W i deep sleep state).
>> >>>>
>> >>>>So I would like to have the CPU stopped completely (consuming 0 W)
>> >>>>while I still could read the screen. In that way I should
>> >>>>be able to have about double the lifetime on the battery,
>> >>>>going to about 7 hours from the 3.5 hours I have now.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>I would like the machine to wake up again by any keystroke
>> >>>>on the keyboard or mouse input. I would like the input to be
>> >>>>reacted upon (not just used to wake up the system, and
>> >>>>then forgotten).
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>S1 is what you want... but... if you get what you asked for,
>> >>>do you realize that for example clock would not update on the desktop
>> >>>in this mode?
>> >>
>> >>Which hardware can power down the CPU on its own?
>> >
>> >I thought that CPU powered down is pretty much definition S1.
>> >
>>
>> Please refer to http://acpi.sourceforge.net/documentation/sleep.html
>> and ACPI spec 2.0a around Page 216
>>
>> "Sleep States
>> 	S1 - "Stopgrant"
>> 	Power to cpu is maintained, but no instructions are executed.
>> 	The CPU halts itself and may shut down many of its internal
>> 	 components. In Microsoft Windows, the "Standby" command
>> 	is associated with this state by default.
>> "
>
> Well, I think what I want is S2, from the same document:
>
>      S2
>
>      While defined in the spec, this state is not currently in use. It
>      resembles S3 with the qualification that some devices are permitted to
>      remain on.

"some devices" could include the CPU - fair enough!

>
>      S3 - "Suspend to RAM"
>
>      All power to the cpu is shut off, and the contents of its registers are
>      flushed to RAM, which remains on. In Microsoft Windows, the "Standby"
>      command can be associated with this state if enabled in the BIOS.
>      Because it requires a high degree of coordination between the cpu,
>      chipset, devices, OS, BIOS, and OS device drivers, this system state is
>      the most prone to errors and instability.
>      Pavel Machek has created a small document with some hints how to solve
>      problems with S3. You can find it in the kernel sources at
>      Documentation/power/tricks.txt.
>      S3 is currently _not_ supported by the 2.4.x kernel series in Linux.
>
>
> I would like the CPU to power down, save things in memory, and then
> still have the screen and associated hardware on, and possibly also the
> keyboard and mouse if that is needed to capture an ACPI event, including
> the actual keystroke. This seems to be S2. I am not sure if all of S2
> needs to be implemented to do what I asked for, I just would like the
> functionality I described.
>
>> If you look at the original post, S1 "Stopgrant" costs 5W on his celeron.
>> It takes a lot
>> more on many 90nm chips. I read in the Centrino datasheet that it can draw
>> 15W
>> stopgrant at  _maximum_ vcore!!!. The maximum  possible power consumption
>> is only 25W!.
>> Now, that is life with modern CMOS, leakage is most of the power
>> consumption....
>> I think it will improve but 1:3 is the best you can expect for multi GHZ
>> CPU's.
>
> According to that, then what I ask for could also be beneficial to
> centrino CPU's.

It would be benefitial to most CPU's also desktops.

>
>> So again, which (mainboard/notebook) HW does depower the CPU and keeps the
>> rest running ?
>
> I thought this was something that most mainboards would support, given
> that we make the appropiate SW in the kernel.

If you want to depower the CPU, you have to depower its bridge
connections as well,  _No_  Mainboard especially the chipsets
can do that. . ... also need a seperate set of main regulators for the
CPU.

The software side would be mostly CPU part of S3.

>
> Another thing is that if a mainboard/BIOS supports ACPI, then it should
> actually support all of ACPI, including S2 support. Or am I wrong?

All optional by the spec. You get S0, and S5 and S4 and S3 when you
are  lucky. Got a P4 with S1 and S3, but its DSDT is so buggy I run
it with ACPI=off and use swsusp 2 on 2.4.

>
>> As to ACPI there should be a S2.5 state, or a S3 extension to power down
>> the CPU and run the rest...
>
> I thought S2 was actually powering down the cpu, saving all registers
> and things in memory, like S3, and then leaving some devices on. As I have read it,
> this is clean S2, and not a 2.5 level. But I am not an ACPI expert.

It could be, provided someone writes a spec on how to power the CPU down
while keeping the rest running and the manufacturers implement it.

ACPI  for Linux implements the spec and supports features supported
by hardware. I suggest you discuss in a PC hardware forum.

	Best Regards
	Michael


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