howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Norbert Preining]

Hi all!

I am looking for a method to boot our alpha after we have upgraded to a
new SCSI controller, which isn't supported by the SRM console (Adaptec).
(our alpha is CONFIG_PC164)

Up to now I have collected the followng options:

aboot:
======
- Put aboot and kernel on a floppy, boot from floppy
	this is working, but I am not a big friend of it.

network:
========
- Boot via network/bootp
	this doesn't work up to now, OTOH I want the alpha to be
	not dependent on another machine

milo:
=====
- Put milo on a flopy disk and boot SRM -> milo
	i haven't succeeded with this up to now, only once with a 
	very old milo.dd, but then I need a second floppy for the kernel
	and this is not feasible
- put mile (if it is running once) into the flash
	hmm, that would be nice ...


So now my questions:
- How do I make a milo bootable floppy?
	I want to take the milo images from http://milo.core-systems.de/
	(Stefan Reinauer), but there is no milo.dd. I found a
	description how to accomplish this:
		objstrip -v -p milo-image mboot
		cat mboot milo-image > milo.dd
	I dd this milo.dd onto a floppy, booted from it, but the process
	stuck at
		Jumping to PALcode
	(or something similar)

- Now assume I can get milo to boot. Is it possible to write milo into
  the flash as described in the MILO HOWTO?
	Our machine is a PC164 board (Booting on EB164 variation PC164
	using machine vector PC164 from SRM, CONFIG_PC164).

- Finally, are there any other options to boot this alpha
	. without the need for another machine (boot server)
	. without floppy
	

Thanks a lot for any suggestions!

Best wishes

Norbert

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Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:

> Hi all!
>
> I am looking for a method to boot our alpha after we have upgraded to a
> new SCSI controller, which isn't supported by the SRM console (Adaptec).
> (our alpha is CONFIG_PC164)
>
> Up to now I have collected the followng options:
>
> aboot:
> ======
> - Put aboot and kernel on a floppy, boot from floppy
> 	this is working, but I am not a big friend of it.

aboot and kernel on HD on onboard controller is another option.
That's how I boot my sx164.

> network:
> ========
> - Boot via network/bootp
> 	this doesn't work up to now, OTOH I want the alpha to be
> 	not dependent on another machine

Have you tried booting with aboot over the network.  It's worked for
me.

> milo:

I wouldn't do that.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@mru.ath.cx
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Joakim Roubert]

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:

> > milo:
> I wouldn't do that.

Me neither; I used to run milo, but then switched to SRM. The only reason
I see to usethe milo solution with ARC is if one has to use Windows on the
same machine (or if no SRM is available).

Regards,

/Joakim
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Joakim Roubert <jokke@df.lth.se> writes:

> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
>
>> > milo:
>> I wouldn't do that.
>
> Me neither; I used to run milo, but then switched to SRM. The only reason
> I see to usethe milo solution with ARC is if one has to use Windows on the

SRM has the command "arc" to load up ARC/AlphaBIOS for one session.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@mru.ath.cx
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Norbert Preining]

On Fre, 15 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> > aboot:
> > ======
> > - Put aboot and kernel on a floppy, boot from floppy
> > 	this is working, but I am not a big friend of it.
> 
> aboot and kernel on HD on onboard controller is another option.
> That's how I boot my sx164.

Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to take this route, put a small IDE
disk into the machine, and only get aboot, kernel and root-fs from
there. Anyting else will be done from SCSI disks.

> > - Boot via network/bootp
> > 	this doesn't work up to now, OTOH I want the alpha to be
> > 	not dependent on another machine
> 
> Have you tried booting with aboot over the network.  It's worked for
> me.

Finally I got it to work using the fix from Ivan Kokshaysky.
No I only need a SRM-bootp acceptable NIC for our second alpha ;-)

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:

> On Fre, 15 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
>> > aboot:
>> > ======
>> > - Put aboot and kernel on a floppy, boot from floppy
>> > 	this is working, but I am not a big friend of it.
>> 
>> aboot and kernel on HD on onboard controller is another option.
>> That's how I boot my sx164.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to take this route, put a small IDE
> disk into the machine, and only get aboot, kernel and root-fs from
> there. Anyting else will be done from SCSI disks.

There is no problem having the root fs on the SCSI disks.  Just pass
root=/dev/sdXX to the kernel.

>> > - Boot via network/bootp
>> > 	this doesn't work up to now, OTOH I want the alpha to be
>> > 	not dependent on another machine
>> 
>> Have you tried booting with aboot over the network.  It's worked for
>> me.
>
> Finally I got it to work using the fix from Ivan Kokshaysky.
> No I only need a SRM-bootp acceptable NIC for our second alpha ;-)

The Digital Tulip series usually work well (surprise).  They are
getting rare these days, though.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@mru.ath.cx
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Jay Maynard]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 02:51:42PM +0200, M?ns Rullg?rd wrote:
> Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:
> > Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to take this route, put a small IDE
> > disk into the machine, and only get aboot, kernel and root-fs from
> > there. Anyting else will be done from SCSI disks.
> There is no problem having the root fs on the SCSI disks.  Just pass
> root=/dev/sdXX to the kernel.

If you do this, I'd suggest putting swap space on the unused portion of the
IDE. That way, you won't have I/O contention for swapping.

Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Norbert Preining]

Hi Måns!

On Fre, 22 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> > Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to take this route, put a small IDE
> > disk into the machine, and only get aboot, kernel and root-fs from
> > there. Anyting else will be done from SCSI disks.
> 
> There is no problem having the root fs on the SCSI disks.  Just pass
> root=/dev/sdXX to the kernel.

So the aboot loader, the etc/aboot.conf and the kernel(s). That would be
not to bad. Would the following layout work:

hda1:/etc/aboot.conf
hda1:/vmlinuz

and in aboot.conf there is:
0:1/vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda1


> > Finally I got it to work using the fix from Ivan Kokshaysky.
> > No I only need a SRM-bootp acceptable NIC for our second alpha ;-)
> 
> The Digital Tulip series usually work well (surprise).  They are
> getting rare these days, though.

Hmm, this is the one that does not work here:
Linux Tulip driver version 0.9.15-pre12 (Aug 9, 2002)
tulip0:  EEPROM default media type Autosense.
tulip0:  Index #0 - Media MII (#11) described by a 21140 MII PHY (1) block.
tulip0:  MII transceiver #0 config 0000 status 780d advertising 01e1.
eth0: Digital DS21140 Tulip rev 34 at 0xfffffc880a104000, 00:40:05:36:50:D4, IRQ 25.

The only one I got working was on our PC164 with
eth0: DE434/5 at 0x8400 (PCI bus 0, device 7), h/w address 00:c0:95:ec:b7:60,
      and requires IRQ17 (provided by PCI BIOS).
de4x5.c:V0.546 2001/02/22 davies@maniac.ultranet.com


Are you sure that the tulip work?

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.cx> writes:

> On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 02:51:42PM +0200, M?ns Rullg?rd wrote:
>> Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:
>> > Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to take this route, put a small IDE
>> > disk into the machine, and only get aboot, kernel and root-fs from
>> > there. Anyting else will be done from SCSI disks.
>> There is no problem having the root fs on the SCSI disks.  Just pass
>> root=/dev/sdXX to the kernel.
>
> If you do this, I'd suggest putting swap space on the unused portion of the
> IDE. That way, you won't have I/O contention for swapping.

The IDE controller on the SX164 is really nothing you want to be using
at all.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@mru.ath.cx
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Norbert Preining]

On Fre, 22 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> > If you do this, I'd suggest putting swap space on the unused portion of the
> > IDE. That way, you won't have I/O contention for swapping.
> 
> The IDE controller on the SX164 is really nothing you want to be using
> at all.

Is it that bad? It is the SiI680: IDE controller.

Best wishes

Norbert

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:

> Hi Måns!
>
> On Fre, 22 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
>> > Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to take this route, put a small IDE
>> > disk into the machine, and only get aboot, kernel and root-fs from
>> > there. Anyting else will be done from SCSI disks.
>> 
>> There is no problem having the root fs on the SCSI disks.  Just pass
>> root=/dev/sdXX to the kernel.
>
> So the aboot loader, the etc/aboot.conf and the kernel(s). That would be
> not to bad. Would the following layout work:
>
> hda1:/etc/aboot.conf
> hda1:/vmlinuz
>
> and in aboot.conf there is:
> 0:1/vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda1

That looks like it should work.

>> > Finally I got it to work using the fix from Ivan Kokshaysky.
>> > No I only need a SRM-bootp acceptable NIC for our second alpha ;-)
>> 
>> The Digital Tulip series usually work well (surprise).  They are
>> getting rare these days, though.
>
> Hmm, this is the one that does not work here:
> Linux Tulip driver version 0.9.15-pre12 (Aug 9, 2002)
> tulip0:  EEPROM default media type Autosense.
> tulip0:  Index #0 - Media MII (#11) described by a 21140 MII PHY (1) block.
> tulip0:  MII transceiver #0 config 0000 status 780d advertising 01e1.
> eth0: Digital DS21140 Tulip rev 34 at 0xfffffc880a104000, 00:40:05:36:50:D4, IRQ 25.

I've used several tulip cards, never had a problem.  What does lspci
identify it as?

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@mru.ath.cx
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:

> On Fre, 22 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
>> > If you do this, I'd suggest putting swap space on the unused portion of the
>> > IDE. That way, you won't have I/O contention for swapping.
>> 
>> The IDE controller on the SX164 is really nothing you want to be using
>> at all.
>
> Is it that bad? It is the SiI680: IDE controller.

Mine has a Cypress 82c693, which is somewhat less than impressive.

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Måns Rullgård
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Norbert Preining]

On Fre, 22 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> >> The IDE controller on the SX164 is really nothing you want to be using
> >> at all.
> >
> > Is it that bad? It is the SiI680: IDE controller.
> 
> Mine has a Cypress 82c693, which is somewhat less than impressive.

Uuups, you are right, in the
	SX164:	CY82C693
	PC164:  CMD646
the SiI is another IDE extern we have.

Best wishes

Norbert

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Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Norbert Preining]

Hi Måns!

On Fre, 22 Okt 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> > and in aboot.conf there is:
> > 0:1/vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda1
> 
> That looks like it should work.

Ok, thanks. Will try that.

> >> The Digital Tulip series usually work well (surprise).  They are
> >> getting rare these days, though.
> >
> I've used several tulip cards, never had a problem.  What does lspci
> identify it as?

00:05.0 Ethernet controller: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21140 [FasterNet] (rev 22)
        Subsystem: D-Link System Inc DFE-500TX Fast Ethernet
        Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 25
        I/O ports at 8800 [size=128]
        Memory at 000000000a104000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128]
        Expansion ROM at 000000000a080000 [disabled] [size=256K]

What do you have in your machine?

BTW: As you seem to have a SX164, too: Do you experience `autistic'
behaviour (ie, noreaction to kbd, net, whatever, but still working
because I see -- after reboot -- marks in the syslog file) when the
SX164 is connected to a 100Mb port? As soon as we plug our SX164 into a
100Mb port and there is heavy networking load, the machine suddenly
becomes autistic as described.

Best wishes

Norbert

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Norbert Preining <preining AT logic DOT at>         Technische Universität Wien
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[Måns Rullgård]

Norbert Preining <preining@logic.at> writes:

>> >> The Digital Tulip series usually work well (surprise).  They are
>> >> getting rare these days, though.
>> >
>> I've used several tulip cards, never had a problem.  What does lspci
>> identify it as?
>
> 00:05.0 Ethernet controller: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21140 [FasterNet] (rev 22)
>         Subsystem: D-Link System Inc DFE-500TX Fast Ethernet
>         Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 25
>         I/O ports at 8800 [size=128]
>         Memory at 000000000a104000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128]
>         Expansion ROM at 000000000a080000 [disabled] [size=256K]
>
> What do you have in your machine?

My tulip cards are genuine Digital brand cards, which might explain
the difference.

> BTW: As you seem to have a SX164, too: Do you experience `autistic'
> behaviour (ie, noreaction to kbd, net, whatever, but still working
> because I see -- after reboot -- marks in the syslog file) when the
> SX164 is connected to a 100Mb port? As soon as we plug our SX164 into a
> 100Mb port and there is heavy networking load, the machine suddenly
> becomes autistic as described.

I haven't seen any of that behavior.

-- 
Måns Rullgård
mru@mru.ath.cx
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Re: howto boot alpha via SRM without supported SCSI controller

[John Goerzen]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 10:40:53AM +0200, Joakim Roubert wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Måns Rullgård wrote:
> 
> > > milo:
> > I wouldn't do that.
> 
> Me neither; I used to run milo, but then switched to SRM. The only reason
> I see to usethe milo solution with ARC is if one has to use Windows on the
> same machine (or if no SRM is available).

Or if your disks are not partitioned with the DEC partition table.

I successfully converted a disk enough to boot.  But it was not the
most simple process to do so in a non-destructive way.

-- John