From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: David Drysdale <drysdale@google.com>
Cc: linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
Shuah Khan <shuahkh@osg.samsung.com>,
Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
Eric B Munson <emunson@akamai.com>,
Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
Oleg Nesterov <oleg@redhat.com>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
Alexei Starovoitov <ast@plumgrid.com>,
David Herrmann <dh.herrmann@gmail.com>,
Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>, Kees Cook <keesc>
Subject: Re: [PATCHv2 1/1] Documentation: describe how to add a system call
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 10:38:31 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150730083831.GA22182@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1438242731-27756-2-git-send-email-drysdale@google.com>
* David Drysdale <drysdale@google.com> wrote:
> +Designing the API
> +-----------------
> +
> +A new system call forms part of the API of the kernel, and has to be supported
> +indefinitely. As such, it's a very good idea to explicitly discuss the
> +interface on the kernel mailing list, and to plan for future extensions of the
> +interface. In particular:
> +
> + **Include a flags argument for every new system call**
Sorry, but I think that's bad avice, because even a 'flags' field is inflexible
and stupid in many cases - it fosters an 'ioctl' kind of design.
> +The syscall table is littered with historical examples where this wasn't done,
> +together with the corresponding follow-up system calls (eventfd/eventfd2,
> +dup2/dup3, inotify_init/inotify_init1, pipe/pipe2, renameat/renameat2), so
> +learn from the history of the kernel and include a flags argument from the
> +start.
The syscall table is also littered with system calls that have an argument space
considerably larger than what 6 parameters can express, where various 'flags' are
used to bring in different parts of new APIs, in a rather messy way.
The right approach IMHO is to think about how extensible a system call is expected
to be, and to plan accordingly.
If you are anywhere close to 6 parameters, you should not introduce 'flags' but
you should _reduce_ the number of parameters to a clean essential of 2 or 3
parameters and should shuffle parameters out to a separate 'parameters/attributes'
structure that is passed in by pointer:
SYSCALL_DEFINE2(syscall, int, fd, struct params __user *, params);
And it's the design of 'struct params' that determines future flexibility of the
interface. A very flexible approach is to not use flags but a 'size' argument:
struct params {
u32 size;
u32 param_1;
u64 param_2;
u64 param_3;
};
Where 'size' is set by user-space to the size of 'struct params' known to it at
build time:
params->size = sizeof(*params);
In the normal case the kernel will get param->size == sizeof(*params) as known to
the kernel.
When the system call is extended in the future on the kernel side, with 'u64
param_4', then the structure expands from an old size of 24 to a new size of 32
bytes. The following scenarios might occur:
- the common case: new user-space calls the new kernel code, ->size is 32 on both
sides.
- old binaries might call the kernel with params->size == 24, in which case the
kernel sets the new fields to 0. The new feature should be written
accordingly, so that a value of 0 means the old behavior.
- new binaries might run on old kernels, with params->size == 32. In this case
the old kernel will check that all the new fields it does not know about are
set to 0 - if they are nonzero (if the new feature is used) it returns with
-ENOSYS or -EINVAL.
With this approach we have both backwards and forwards binary compatibility: new
binaries will run on old kernels just fine, even if they have ->size set to 32, as
long as they make use of the features.
This design simplifies application design considerably: as new code can mostly
forget about old ABIs, there's no multiple versions to be taken care of, there's
just a single 'struct param' known to both sides, and there's no version skew.
We are using such a design in perf_event_open(), see perf_copy_attr() in
kernel/events/core.c. And yes, ironically that system call still has a historic
'flags' argument, but it's not used anymore for extension: we've made over 30
extensions to the ABI in the last 3 years, which would have been impossible with a
'flags' approach.
Thanks,
Ingo
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-07-30 8:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 25+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-07-30 7:52 [PATCHv2 0/1] Document how to add a new syscall David Drysdale
2015-07-30 7:52 ` [PATCHv2 1/1] Documentation: describe how to add a system call David Drysdale
2015-07-30 8:38 ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
[not found] ` <20150730083831.GA22182-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-07-30 11:10 ` David Drysdale
2015-07-30 18:21 ` Kees Cook
[not found] ` <CAGXu5j+5KHy68ELU6PmNWaj7mQBXTbRQGXqJFwsXHt9n0LPw8Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-07-30 19:04 ` Josh Triplett
2015-07-30 20:03 ` Kees Cook
2015-07-31 1:02 ` Josh Triplett
2015-07-31 1:03 ` Josh Triplett
2015-07-31 18:56 ` Kees Cook
2015-07-31 20:59 ` josh
2015-07-31 21:19 ` Andy Lutomirski
[not found] ` <CALCETrUkMXvFRKdTH7ekY7FyGvbKDDJbf7L0shgs5R-Hep6bVA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2015-07-31 22:08 ` josh-iaAMLnmF4UmaiuxdJuQwMA
2015-07-31 22:54 ` Andy Lutomirski
2015-08-01 4:32 ` Josh Triplett
2015-08-01 4:56 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <55BC518E.4010102-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-08-01 6:18 ` Josh Triplett
2015-08-01 6:28 ` H. Peter Anvin
2015-07-30 18:22 ` Josh Triplett
2015-07-30 16:30 ` Cyril Hrubis
2015-07-30 16:45 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2015-07-30 18:50 ` Josh Triplett
2015-07-31 9:48 ` David Drysdale
2015-07-31 13:06 ` Josh Triplett
2015-07-31 14:42 ` David Drysdale
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