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[209.85.167.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p11sm629922ljg.17.2020.08.12.12.50.46 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-f42.google.com with SMTP id d2so1817459lfj.1 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3b7:: with SMTP id v23mr500353lfp.10.1597261845653; Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:50:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1842689.1596468469@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <1845353.1596469795@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <20200811135419.GA1263716@miu.piliscsaba.redhat.com> <52483.1597190733@warthog.procyon.org.uk> <066f9aaf-ee97-46db-022f-5d007f9e6edb@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <066f9aaf-ee97-46db-022f-5d007f9e6edb@redhat.com> From: Linus Torvalds Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 12:50:28 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: file metadata via fs API To: Steven Whitehouse Cc: David Howells , Miklos Szeredi , linux-fsdevel , Al Viro , Karel Zak , Jeff Layton , Miklos Szeredi , Nicolas Dichtel , Christian Brauner , Lennart Poettering , Linux API , Ian Kent , LSM , Linux Kernel Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-api-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-api@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 12:34 PM Steven Whitehouse wrote: > > The point of this is to give us the ability to monitor mounts from > userspace. We haven't had that before, I don't see why it's suddenly such a big deal. The notification side I understand. Polling /proc files is not the answer. But the whole "let's design this crazy subsystem for it" seems way overkill. I don't see anybody caring that deeply. It really smells like "do it because we can, not because we must". Who the hell cares about monitoring mounts at a kHz frequencies? If this is for MIS use, you want a nice GUI and not wasting CPU time polling. I'm starting to ignore the pull requests from David Howells, because by now they have had the same pattern for a couple of years now: esoteric new interfaces that seem overdesigned for corner-cases that I'm not seeing people clamoring for. I need (a) proof this is actualyl something real users care about and (b) way more open discussion and implementation from multiple parties. Because right now it looks like a small in-cabal of a couple of people who have wild ideas but I'm not seeing the wider use of it. Convince me otherwise. AGAIN. This is the exact same issue I had with the notification queues that I really wanted actual use-cases for, and feedback from actual outside users. I really think this is engineering for its own sake, rather than responding to actual user concerns. Linus