From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=209.85.128.41 ARC-Seal: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; t=1793726517; b=AFO7sdQZMrLVzTsw+9PWzQjFMK1MoFHnAGAWeIg9qlwl7e4gHdkTR0xbM68wgo5caENi zUUsV+BoycYAJqMWlxeD60pcMGb0k7DyK5Owdj11NOKqMHSQmTaKQoEKoNHGuws48VXgi K8rGRxVie6XiGM2sz45Pf6sMm/bd0MJX2uR4QYrKnUotM3kjIteoYm5+UH0S4EmrEeU9/ 4ykvLjZIGaJ9ebS5EYd9sq5kLbuZ4JOBU0fFRTdRHtFY+beuaMRZp6drhBXx7Oclyr0e3 x3MpwRra09+pjalqmepmQQ4rgmAww2NoQ4G0M1EQOat1cBMJRHTa6jh/5AEcIoF3dig== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc20261015; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1793726517; h=DMARC-Filter:Received:DKIM-Signature:X-Google-DKIM-Signature: X-Forwarded-Encrypted:X-Gm-Message-State:X-Gm-Gg:X-Received:Received: Mime-Version:Content-Type:Date:Message-Id:Cc:Subject:From:To:X-Mailer: References:In-Reply-To; bh=AD4L42H0HNVoYlglqMFr39a2BJYBFr7pQM1pceNP/MA=; b=l6tUENQDWV78CyUuu8++ufv86CZgDfAMO4Gaezm5py+VxnmDlqh/0epllW+IcaXttVyP IG8ku7YieOByMME+SMPINuJY05oYV6ezvf3UIT0VABsoLRRxXQ/fT7Qx3li13ibS3Ky/E uX+h60xAIclz0C0l/buZqxH74lq7RmueT9GJxQDBCslu4qo5eZVC+4EHsNtJJ+DY6yZ4F ycO4hmWfxm5aD4q6j+v/D0XsH5tSkDw7RCjjQ5qr4MrzwcTxrEg51acfkROvGM+KRdgwY +eH8GKzd63bmtYVsU30gRRKom8EP1q8MVUAveFJtfUAPJILLkZy0q4o7i+h+IjzhZMA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20260707 header.b="PPSaT/cx"; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=209.85.128.41 Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com (mail-wm1-f41.google.com [209.85.128.41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82933606A324 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 2026 17:21:57 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 smtp.subspace.kernel.org 82933606A324 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=20260707 header.b=PPSaT/cx Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4a4dc547987so22639715e9.0 for ; Tue, 03 Nov 2026 09:21:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20260707; t=1793726516; x=1794331316; darn=vger.kernel.org; h=in-reply-to:references:to:from:subject:cc:message-id:date :content-type:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to:content-type; bh=AD4L42H0HNVoYlglqMFr39a2BJYBFr7pQM1pceNP/MA=; b=PPSaT/cxmZ6hURUQKCutb+9MNl3fhi5qn8d5wFV015ZFNP0p7wP/UMc9QWwSCjKlPZ zL/DD7gvjUVS1WwDG0vy7qUtdL4e9ZBG8lQnrDRgkfIUIZlbzvv/trLSefcWiQBKSr6u RWiOf73SY7QM6RfyYuZu6k4tR5WiWRRKh/RIeV0cY5iHRsNLK+hTXF4APDRoBkCtO0ct XYVAwfYwEMmz7BR45aY/9jxlYMj2cVxDIW7S6WMomC8Q4pSudP/vALucJz1DmpNouKJK rA6xG/hBuUMhhOF7kKRJNPw+Wh4MOGJIc9m2NaRK8UCv+/ZvMWsAaIltcn9U+q8NCPVX b5Xw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20260707; t=1793726516; x=1794331316; h=in-reply-to:references:to:from:subject:cc:message-id:date :content-type:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to:content-type; bh=AD4L42H0HNVoYlglqMFr39a2BJYBFr7pQM1pceNP/MA=; b=GPwSM65LRKZ3cUH5laxAAXGlWZzyGy1O1Qo26ecsN2mKHMMndPf8k6+cx8IUGMRWIq yIFuChGsuCI6E5B0ndj61g7Mibfs4PcpoOYPK3sDxEbafjpSzyyxnYELT/jCD+GhT16t uLOYvnBtS0FXHVERZdjuW6ZMvPZ+05aj6MCTYUJ3PqSlOm03wDKD5G/M3StH7qaLKeyl 22vbqlS+b+9xjk/SQnxFvNW3BR2EhVqRHV2J19NNGahBuc17z5aF72wIKSk1yHCGeszT WxYUToJOrHxKxRkCw9jLgDeEV12O6/hl/DGiCkXWDPwh1pw9hQGPJi040Qj4KgPbJ8/I U2bg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AKwUvBzVs5nq92Msh+fjwt/iWMmpaLDswU2ZVVHCa9cwcaZvR82Uz8zouNBViWUBpr4uTnQyopSawtzj2b0=@vger.kernel.org X-Gm-Message-State: APuU4Z+jsSErHzNVn6UE7ZoMgdegqghSfGX48LZK3GW6qEIJVPEcZ3HV 4WF+MMLiw8QwtNFdyiED6FIzRRW1dQQm9pck3acCxp66hrR02GeHsSbG X-Gm-Gg: AYBFou0oZ/vy4JnGGE8g+Y5YDwqACVY053zlknMepyExC7d0tM5YAH/kzl2+5iXgQY2 NH1jgF/jox7B1JmMqH0YDyqIaSjbvVadk8EZyRjUbs1zcjRZd8TOdkUsqtCnRQMZBx7bpI9953s JfqfUKQiz3feDL4D3le5tbDLO91ajZDv4N8t7Ax9MbP7r+6WjB8jweo6gqfoKaHUSWbviiOEdV0 1cnBI6ELHQZVB0+2Na0ZK2g+50VEPHVEeS/NUyHp2jPAu5h3ttVlIIxLHLXQsGLuDTKniYF7qrH VUgrL9oJq0SJedaCiqzJP5qNOgOQfM4k0/vG9GptvS7K+ncGjr70d+y41Au7svuMfm/EWky8y5c Ev5+WyvO15IUxv9E1obvNECvR5mbC+Ep3RKFQtlK9yx5NIzbMdAGc51SNWYIBp7ocDbSlD91knG J0f4jwANozLpDv/h1rIbrpQQQfvKy/nPlY/o7VAn1kPK+E675drqT367z5PpdijMZ+QOuhdk6Me 5dRGS7ccUF0nKcLqc5wcaZP8hH/vkusB+SSt6IHEjCLqS76pl7mqwc6W91/Kq5dWyrrSGujP8yh uxM+9vDcHZ5nothfYVki3pLF X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3b0e:b0:4a7:7d22:c50c with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-4ac150b2243mr345177055e9.2.1793726515970; Tue, 03 Nov 2026 09:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([151.60.201.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4ac0a66caefsm287061365e9.5.2026.11.03.09.21.54 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 03 Nov 2026 09:21:55 -0800 (PST) X-Mailing-List: linux-api@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2026 18:21:53 +0100 Message-Id: Cc: "David Sterba" , "Alexander Viro" , "Christian Brauner" , "Namjae Jeon" , "Sungjong Seo" , "Konstantin Komarov" , "Chris Mason" , "Jan Kara" , "Yuezhang Mo" , "Chuck Lever" , "Darrick J . Wong" , "Sean Smith" , "Andrey Albershteyn" , "Pedro Falcato" , =?utf-8?q?Pali_Roh=C3=A1r?= , , , , , , Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 0/5] add provenance time (ptime) From: "koraynilay" To: "Amir Goldstein" , "koraynilay" X-Mailer: aerc 0.22.0-0-gc2f86b7abde3 References: <20261101015551.786044-1-koray.fra@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: --1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue Nov 3, 2026 at 4:12 PM CET, Amir Goldstein wrote: > On Tue, Nov 3, 2026 at 12:25=E2=80=AFPM koraynilay = wrote: >> >> On Mon Nov 2, 2026 at 3:54 PM CET, Amir Goldstein wrote: >> > On Sun, Nov 1, 2026 at 2:57=E2=80=AFAM koraynilay wrote: >> >> >> >> This is an initial implementation of a new timestamp to indicate the >> >> time when a file/directory was initially created. >> >> >> >> This patch series takes inspiration from the one by Sean Smith >> >> [1], but using >> >> file_setattr()/file_getattr() as suggested by Darrick J. Wong >> >> in [2]. >> >> >> >> The semantics of this new timestamp should be at least these: >> >> - it should be the same as btime on a newly created file >> >> - it's user-settable, so it can be preserved for backups, filesystem >> >> conversions, archives and any similar operation >> >> - it should be preserved every time mtime gets preserved >> >> >> >> and the correspondence with the other timestamps is as follows: >> >> >> >> ctime <-> btime >> >> mtime <-> ptime >> >> >> >> Examples: >> >> 1) a .zsh_history file created in 2019, then after a few years the us= er >> >> decides to switch to another filesystem, copying the .zsh_history = to >> >> the new home, in that case btime would have the timestamp of the c= opy >> >> and ptime would have the 2019 timestamp (just like mtime would hav= e >> >> been preserved) >> >> 2) a symlink created in 2020 from the home directory to a /path going >> >> through the same process as the .zsh_history, in this case it woul= d >> >> also make sense to sync the ptime to the 2020 timestamp instead of >> >> keeping only the btime (so the inode creation time). >> >> >> >> The proof-of-concept code (for testing) for stat(1) and cp(1) is >> >> available at https://github.com/koraynilay/coreutils (master branch) >> >> (Note: these coreutils code changes are a prototype and won't be >> >> submitted upstream as-is, but they work as expected in simple stat an= d >> >> cp -a/--preserve=3Dptime tests) >> >> >> >> Lastly, the name "provenance" and "ptime" are not final, I personally >> >> don't have a strong opinion on any name, but while testing with stat(= 1) >> >> I noticed that "Provenance" is definitely too long for the normal >> >> output, so another option which would fit well is "Origin time", >> >> abbreviated as "ntime" (OrigiN time) and not as "otime", as that woul= d >> >> conflict with btrfs' internal naming and create confusion. >> > >> > FWIW, I agree that given the existing uses of btime and crtime in the >> > kernel and various XXXprogs, using 'ptime' for kernel code is probably >> > the lesser evil. >> >> What do you think about the origiN time (ntime) (Origin: in stat)? >> It would also coincidentally be alphabetically (ntime <-> mtime, n -> m) >> the same as btime <-> ctime (b -> c) ahah. >> > > Honestly I don't know. > My new idea is don't publish it in statx() at all. Well I was more talking about the actual variable names in all patches ahah. Thanks, koraynilay > Thanks, > Amir. --1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHUEABYKAB0WIQRJ2XvJtXGwULYEerQ0bnTtJTDoOAUCauoYMQAKCRA0bnTtJTDo OI2UAQDfLMxbWJxZCtj5g/a2TQHWFv3yLHmv7IEjclN8pYY5IgD/VFtdYZ3g+FW5 oxEEhXF7xBfTTV5O+6Ag8QIL/lM51wc= =XiPH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1ae0fec9eeabe43856471b243f1ece3413edf7686407593b3575066613d8--