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From: Thomas Gleixner <tglx-hfZtesqFncYOwBW4kG4KsQ@public.gmane.org>
To: Torvald Riegel <triegel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)"
	<mtk.manpages-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Carlos O'Donell <carlos-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>,
	Jakub Jelinek <jakub-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	"linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org"
	<linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Davidlohr Bueso <davidlohr.bueso-VXdhtT5mjnY@public.gmane.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd-r2nGTMty4D4@public.gmane.org>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt-nx8X9YLhiw1AfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Anton Blanchard <anton-eUNUBHrolfbYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>,
	Petr Baudis <pasky-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	bill o gallmeister
	<bgallmeister-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka-kv7WeFo6aLtBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Daniel Wagner <wagi-kQCPcA+X3s7YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>,
	Rich Felker <dalias-8zAoT0mYgF4@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: futex(2) man page update help request
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 12:35:01 +0100 (CET)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.11.1501241116160.5526@nanos> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1422037788.29655.0.camel-I2ZjUw8blINjztcc/or7kQ@public.gmane.org>

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015, Torvald Riegel wrote:
> Second, the current documentation for EINTR is that it can happen due to
> receiving a signal *or* due to a spurious wake-up.  This is difficult to

I don't think so. I went through all callchains again with a fine comb.

futex_wait()
retry:
	ret = futex_wait_setup();
	if (ret) {
		 /*
		  * Possible return codes related to uaddr:
		  * -EINVAL:    Not u32 aligned uaddr
		  * -EFAULT:    No mapping, no RW
		  * -ENOMEM:    Paging ran out of memory
		  * -EHWPOISON: Memory hardware error
		  *
		  * Others:
		  * -EWOULDBLOCK: value at uaddr has changed
		  */
		return ret;
	}

	futex_wait_queue_me();

	if (woken by futex_wake/requeue)
	   	return 0;

	if (timeout)
		return -ETIMEOUT;

	/*
	 * Spurious wakeup, i.e. no signal pending
	 */
	if (!signal_pending())
		goto retry;

	/* Handled in the low level syscall exit code */
	if (!timed_wait)
		return -ERESTARTSYS;
	else
		return -ERESTARTBLOCK;

Now in the low level syscall exit we try to deliver the signal

	if (!signal_delivered())
	      restart_syscall();

	if (sigaction->flags & SA_RESTART)
	      restart_syscall();

	ret_to_userspace -EINTR;

So we should never see -EINTR in the case of a spurious wakeup here.

But, here is the not so good news:

 I did some archaeology. The restart handling of futex_wait() got
 introduced in kernel 2.6.22, so anything older than that will have
 the spurious -EINTR issues.

futex_wait_pi() always had the restart handling and glibc folks back
then (2006) requested that it should never return -EINTR, so it
unconditionally restarts the syscall whether a signal had been
delivered or not.

So kernels >= 2.6.22 should never return -EINTR spuriously. If that
happens it's a bug and needs to be fixed.

> Third, I think it would be useful to -- somewhere -- explain which
> behavior the futex operations would have conceptually when expressed by
> C11 code.  We currently say that they wake up, sleep, etc, and which
> values they return.  But we never say how to properly synchronize with
> them on the userspace side.  The C11 memory model is probably the best
> model to use on the userspace side, so that's why I'm arguing for this.
> Basically, I think we need to (1) tell people that they should use
> memory_order_relaxed accesses to the futex variable (ie, the memory
> location associated with the whole futex construct on the kernel side --
> or do we have another name for this?), and (2) give some conceptual
> guarantees for the kernel-side synchronization so that one use this to
> derive how to use them correctly in userspace.
> 
> The man pages might not be the right place for this, and maybe we just
> need a revision of "Futexes are tricky".  If you have other suggestions
> for where to document this, or on the content, let me know.  (I'm also
> willing to spend time on this :) ).

The current futex code in the kernel has gained documentation about
the required memory ordering recently. That should be a good starting
point.

Thanks,

	tglx

  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-01-24 11:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 80+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-05-14 10:35 futex(2) man page update help request Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found] ` <537346E5.4050407-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-14 16:18   ` Darren Hart
2014-05-14 19:03     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]       ` <CAKgNAkh+PWzT2SByaLk_OtiAXeZSkWoMgu+ivDOt1dTWVtaatQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-14 19:59         ` Darren Hart
2014-05-14 20:23         ` Carlos O'Donell
     [not found]           ` <5373D0CA.2050204-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-14 20:44             ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-05-14 23:34             ` Thomas Gleixner
     [not found]               ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405150121230.6261-3cz04HxQygjZikZi3RtOZ1XZhhPuCNm+@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15  3:12                 ` Carlos O'Donell
     [not found]                   ` <537430B5.2060001-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15  4:49                     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-05-15  4:53                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                   ` <CAKgNAkjQ5Dd_U9OojXdgeforpRevvPHNFAw99kBFPCwHgf7Ggg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 14:14                     ` Thomas Gleixner
     [not found]                       ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1405151144390.6261-3cz04HxQygjZikZi3RtOZ1XZhhPuCNm+@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 20:19                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                           ` <53752157.9070803-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-08-04 14:46                             ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-15 20:35                         ` Darren Hart
     [not found]                           ` <CF9A731D.913E6%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-15 15:12                             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                               ` <54B7D8D4.2070203-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-17  1:33                                 ` Darren Hart
2015-01-17  9:16                                   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                     ` <54BA2872.5040003-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-17 19:26                                       ` Darren Hart
     [not found]                                         ` <D0DFF430.B7F94%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-18 10:18                                           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-15 15:10                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                           ` <54B7D87C.3090901-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-15 22:23                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-16 15:17                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                 ` <54B92B71.2090509-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-16 15:20                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-16 20:54                                     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                                       ` <54B97A72.2050205-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-17  0:46                                         ` Darren Hart
     [not found]                                           ` <D0DEECA2.B7EAD%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-19 10:45                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-19 14:07                                               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-01-23 18:19                                             ` Torvald Riegel
2015-01-24 10:05                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-24 12:58                                                 ` Torvald Riegel
     [not found]                                                   ` <1422104287.29655.13.camel-I2ZjUw8blINjztcc/or7kQ@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-24 16:25                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2015-01-17  0:56                                       ` Davidlohr Bueso
     [not found]                                         ` <1421456216.27134.2.camel-h16yJtLeMjHk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-17  1:11                                           ` Darren Hart
2015-01-23 18:29                             ` Torvald Riegel
     [not found]                               ` <1422037788.29655.0.camel-I2ZjUw8blINjztcc/or7kQ@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-24 11:35                                 ` Thomas Gleixner [this message]
2015-01-24 13:12                                   ` Torvald Riegel
     [not found]                                     ` <1422105142.29655.16.camel-I2ZjUw8blINjztcc/or7kQ@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-27  7:48                                       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2015-02-05 19:57                                   ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15  8:13             ` Peter Zijlstra
     [not found]               ` <20140515081357.GC11096-ndre7Fmf5hadTX5a5knrm8zTDFooKrT+cvkQGrU6aU0@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 15:43                 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15  8:14             ` Peter Zijlstra
     [not found]               ` <20140515081444.GD11096-ndre7Fmf5hadTX5a5knrm8zTDFooKrT+cvkQGrU6aU0@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 13:18                 ` Carlos O'Donell
     [not found]                   ` <5374BE9E.8080408-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 13:22                     ` Peter Zijlstra
     [not found]                       ` <20140515132235.GM30445-ndre7Fmf5hadTX5a5knrm8zTDFooKrT+cvkQGrU6aU0@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 13:49                         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                           ` <CAKgNAkjrS8WWMoQzsiOkMVn1_Bf06uFCL6ECU7z=mv0fszg+gQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 13:55                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 14:39                             ` Carlos O'Donell
2014-05-15 15:11                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-14 20:56         ` Davidlohr Bueso
2014-05-14 21:03           ` Darren Hart
     [not found]             ` <CF99279F.907FC%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-14 22:21               ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found]           ` <1400100977.3865.30.camel-5JQ4ckphU/8SZAcGdq5asR6epYMZPwEe5NbjCUgZEJk@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15  0:28             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15  0:35               ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                 ` <CALCETrXzMiS9DwvmZn++wg0x6v-ZR0YP9fAdco4PRST=nTY4nQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15  0:41                   ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]               ` <53740A30.20807-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 19:10                 ` Carlos O'Donell
     [not found]     ` <CF98E3EF.90564%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-14 21:05       ` Davidlohr Bueso
2014-05-15 15:15         ` Joseph S. Myers
2014-05-15  0:18       ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]         ` <537407ED.8050606-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15  5:21           ` Darren Hart
     [not found]             ` <CF999CD6.90A93%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15  8:23               ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-15 13:46               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
     [not found]                 ` <5374C54B.7040408-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 14:59                   ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-15 15:42                 ` chrubis
     [not found]                   ` <20140515154246.GC6926-HSzIOc4LzcM@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 15:52                     ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]                       ` <5374E2A4.2070408-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 16:01                         ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
     [not found]                           ` <20140515160152.GA7529-HSzIOc4LzcM@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 16:07                             ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]                               ` <5374E653.2080309-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 16:17                                 ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
2014-05-15 16:56                                   ` H. Peter Anvin
     [not found]                                     ` <5374F1B3.9080006-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 17:06                                       ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
2014-05-15 15:47                 ` Darren Hart
2014-05-15 15:35           ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
2014-05-15 15:28       ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
     [not found]         ` <20140515152834.GA6926-HSzIOc4LzcM@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 15:40           ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-15 16:14         ` Darren Hart
     [not found]           ` <CF9A3521.90ECC%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 16:30             ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
     [not found]               ` <20140515163004.GB7959-HSzIOc4LzcM@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 18:17                 ` Darren Hart
     [not found]                   ` <CF9A3A75.90F40%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 19:05                     ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
     [not found]                       ` <20140515190529.GA8887-HSzIOc4LzcM@public.gmane.org>
2014-05-15 19:38                         ` Darren Hart
     [not found]                           ` <CF9A658E.91322%dvhart-VuQAYsv1563Yd54FQh9/CA@public.gmane.org>
2014-08-11 10:19                             ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
2014-11-26 13:41                             ` Cyril Hrubis
2015-02-16 13:14                           ` Cyril Hrubis

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