From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: linux-serial@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: RFC: Serial port DTR/RTS - O_NRESETDEV
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2025 23:53:23 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <bb44f856-10a2-40c7-a3f7-be50c8e4b0a9@zytor.com> (raw)
Hi,
I recently ran into a pretty serious issue due to the Unix/Linux (mis)behavior
of forcing DTR and RTS asserted when a serial port is set, losing the
pre-existing status in the process. Since it is impossible probe for the
current status or even if it is a functional serial port without a file
descriptor, this is very problematic. This came up in the context of probing
for serial ports from an application, so even if termios could be modified
without a file descriptor (which it can't) it would not be safe.
I noted there was a patchset for that on linux-serial from 2022 which
apparently got dropped and never merged, but I think it has a pretty serious
problem: it used a sysfs setting to control the behavior, which may be
reasonable for a default, but at the end of it this is really something that
is determined by the intent of the open() call, just like O_NONBLOCK replaced
the old callout devices we once had.
It seems to me that this may very well be a problem beyond ttys, in which case
a new open flag to request to a driver that the configuration and (observable)
state of the underlying hardware device -- whatever it may be -- should not be
disturbed by calling open(). This is of course already the case for many
devices, not to mention block and non-devices, in which case this flag is a
don't care.
The best name I came up with was O_NRESETDEV, but it's not something I'm
particularly attached to.
If the opinion is that this *doesn't* have a scope beyond ttys, then perhaps
abusing the O_DIRECT flag for this purpose would be an alternative.
Thoughts?
-hpa
next reply other threads:[~2025-11-07 7:53 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2025-11-07 7:53 H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2025-11-07 17:37 ` RFC: Serial port DTR/RTS - O_NRESETDEV Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-09 2:25 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-10 3:35 ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-10 5:00 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-10 10:06 ` Maarten Brock
2025-11-10 20:19 ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-10 21:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-11 3:51 ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-11 3:57 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-11 4:38 ` Theodore Ts'o
2025-11-11 10:21 ` Maarten Brock
2025-11-11 21:28 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-12 11:22 ` Greg KH
2025-11-12 16:09 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-12 16:46 ` Greg KH
2025-11-12 19:12 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-12 19:39 ` Greg KH
2025-11-12 19:53 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-12 19:55 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-13 22:24 ` RFC: Serial port DTR/RTS - O_<something> H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-14 10:26 ` Maarten Brock
2025-11-14 18:49 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2025-11-14 18:53 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-15 21:29 ` Ned Ulbricht
2025-11-15 22:29 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-16 0:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-18 16:33 ` Ned Ulbricht
2025-11-18 17:31 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-18 18:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-20 13:31 ` Ned Ulbricht
2025-11-10 5:20 ` RFC: Serial port DTR/RTS - O_NRESETDEV H. Peter Anvin
2025-11-09 20:43 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
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