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From: Adrian Bunk <bunk-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
To: Linus Torvalds
	<torvalds-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Sam Ravnborg <sam-uyr5N9Q2VtJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>,
	linux arch <linux-arch-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>,
	David Miller <davem-fT/PcQaiUtIeIZ0/mPfg9Q@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] prepare kconfig inline optimization for all architectures
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:22:35 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080427172235.GA2252@cs181133002.pp.htv.fi> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271002360.2896-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:06:41AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > 
> > My opinion on this is still:
> > "OPTIMIZE" means "work around bugs in the kernel".
> 
> No.
> 
> It means that
> 
>  - gcc used to (long ago) always honor "inline", and we had kernel code 
>    that depended on that in various ways (ie required that there was no 
>    return etc).
> 
>    We've been mostly replacing the ones we know about with 
>    "__always_inline", but there may be some that remain. We'll find out, I 
>    guess.
> 
>  - gcc was a total and utter piece of horrible crap in the inlining 
>    department, doign insane things and changing their documentation to 
>    match the new behaviour (and some people then claimed that it was 
>    always documented that way).
> 
>    It would not inline big functions even when they statically collapsed 
>    to nothing, etc.
> 
> As a result, we really couldn't afford to let gcc make any inlining 
> decisions, because the compiler was simply *broken*.

I'm looking at it from a different angle, all code in the kernel should 
follow the following rules [1]:
- no functions in .c files should be marked inline
- all functions in headers should be static inline
- all functions in headers should either be very small or collapse
  to become very small after inlining

I can simply not see any usecase for a non-forced inline in the kernel,
and fixing the kernel should give a superset of the space savings of 
this "inline optimization".

> 			Linus

cu
Adrian

[1] there might be rare exceptions

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Adrian Bunk <bunk@kernel.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Sam Ravnborg <sam@ravnborg.org>,
	linux arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] prepare kconfig inline optimization for all architectures
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:22:35 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080427172235.GA2252@cs181133002.pp.htv.fi> (raw)
Message-ID: <20080427172235.CS9OCRxBbOr-9Y1vIOKCBNNz-8lwSyqauAfra2_P1dU@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271002360.2896@woody.linux-foundation.org>

On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 10:06:41AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2008, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > 
> > My opinion on this is still:
> > "OPTIMIZE" means "work around bugs in the kernel".
> 
> No.
> 
> It means that
> 
>  - gcc used to (long ago) always honor "inline", and we had kernel code 
>    that depended on that in various ways (ie required that there was no 
>    return etc).
> 
>    We've been mostly replacing the ones we know about with 
>    "__always_inline", but there may be some that remain. We'll find out, I 
>    guess.
> 
>  - gcc was a total and utter piece of horrible crap in the inlining 
>    department, doign insane things and changing their documentation to 
>    match the new behaviour (and some people then claimed that it was 
>    always documented that way).
> 
>    It would not inline big functions even when they statically collapsed 
>    to nothing, etc.
> 
> As a result, we really couldn't afford to let gcc make any inlining 
> decisions, because the compiler was simply *broken*.

I'm looking at it from a different angle, all code in the kernel should 
follow the following rules [1]:
- no functions in .c files should be marked inline
- all functions in headers should be static inline
- all functions in headers should either be very small or collapse
  to become very small after inlining

I can simply not see any usecase for a non-forced inline in the kernel,
and fixing the kernel should give a superset of the space savings of 
this "inline optimization".

> 			Linus

cu
Adrian

[1] there might be rare exceptions

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed


  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-04-27 17:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-04-27 10:51 [PATCH] prepare kconfig inline optimization for all architectures Sam Ravnborg
2008-04-27 10:51 ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found] ` <20080427105100.GA14795-QabhHTsIXMSnlFQ6Q1D1Y0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 11:31   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-27 11:31     ` Adrian Bunk
     [not found]     ` <20080427113158.GY2252-Aar9JVdAhcRoA3hw4S0G5QR5/fbUUdgG@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 11:56       ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-04-27 11:56         ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found]         ` <20080427115603.GA23493-QabhHTsIXMSnlFQ6Q1D1Y0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 12:36           ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-27 12:36             ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]             ` <20080427123642.GA28005-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 12:49               ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-27 12:49                 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-27 17:06       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 17:06         ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]         ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271002360.2896-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 17:22           ` Adrian Bunk [this message]
2008-04-27 17:22             ` Adrian Bunk
     [not found]             ` <20080427172235.GA2252-Aar9JVdAhcRoA3hw4S0G5QR5/fbUUdgG@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 17:32               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 17:32                 ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                 ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271029130.2896-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 17:47                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-27 17:47                     ` Adrian Bunk
     [not found]                     ` <20080427174714.GB2252-Aar9JVdAhcRoA3hw4S0G5QR5/fbUUdgG@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:00                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 18:00                         ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                         ` <20080427180007.GB28483-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:09                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-04-27 18:09                             ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found]                             ` <20080427180957.GA25964-QabhHTsIXMSnlFQ6Q1D1Y0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:14                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 18:14                                 ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                                 ` <20080427181411.GA31667-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:24                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 18:24                                     ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                                     ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271118500.2896-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:32                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 18:32                                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 19:36                                       ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-27 19:36                                         ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]                                         ` <20080427193627.GA32654-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 19:49                                           ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-27 19:49                                             ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-27 23:26                                       ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-04-27 23:26                                         ` Arjan van de Ven
     [not found]                                         ` <20080427162606.3dd82c0c-NIQFrBLA1CpScpXdPBN83iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 23:36                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 23:36                                             ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                                             ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271634490.3119-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 23:41                                               ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-27 23:41                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-27 18:31                                   ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-04-27 18:31                                     ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found]                                     ` <20080427183131.GA26937-QabhHTsIXMSnlFQ6Q1D1Y0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:36                                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 18:36                                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 18:11                       ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 18:11                         ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                         ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804271053300.2896-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:25                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 18:25                             ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]                             ` <20080427182544.GA23828-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:30                               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 18:30                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 18:41                           ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-27 18:41                             ` Adrian Bunk
     [not found]                             ` <20080427184106.GD2252-Aar9JVdAhcRoA3hw4S0G5QR5/fbUUdgG@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 18:57                               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 18:57                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-27 20:51                       ` Mike Galbraith
2008-04-27 20:51                         ` Mike Galbraith
2008-04-27 17:57                   ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 17:57                     ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-04-27 17:40               ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-04-27 17:40                 ` Matthew Wilcox
     [not found]                 ` <20080427174055.GS14990-6jwH94ZQLHl74goWV3ctuw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 17:59                   ` Adrian Bunk
2008-04-27 17:59                     ` Adrian Bunk

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