From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Paul E. McKenney" Subject: Re: [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:16:04 -0800 Message-ID: <20160114161604.GT3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> References: <20160112092711.GP6344@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20160112102555.GV6373@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20160112104012.GW6373@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20160112114111.GB15737@arm.com> <569565DA.2010903@imgtec.com> <20160113104516.GE25458@arm.com> <56969F4B.7070001@imgtec.com> <20160113204844.GV6357@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <5696BA6E.4070508@imgtec.com> <20160114120445.GB15828@arm.com> Reply-To: paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160114120445.GB15828@arm.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Errors-To: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org To: Will Deacon Cc: linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Peter Zijlstra , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, "H. Peter Anvin" , sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, Ingo Molnar , linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, Russell King - ARM Linux , user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, Michael Ellerman , x86@kernel.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, Ingo Molnar , linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, james.hogan@imgtec.com, Arnd Bergmann , Stefano Stabellini , adi-buildroot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, Leonid Yegoshin , ddaney.cavm@gmail.com, Thomas Gleixner , linux-metag@vger.kernel. List-Id: linux-arch.vger.kernel.org On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:04:45PM +0000, Will Deacon wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 12:58:22PM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > > On 01/13/2016 12:48 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > > >On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:02:35AM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > > > > > >>I ask HW team about it but I have a question - has it any relationship with > > >>replacing MIPS SYNC with lightweight SYNCs (SYNC_WMB etc)? > > >Of course. If you cannot explain the semantics of the primitives you > > >introduce, how can we judge the patch. > > > > > > > > You missed a point - it is a question about replacement of SYNC with > > lightweight primitives. It is NOT a question about multithread system > > behavior without any SYNC. The answer on a latest Will's question lies in > > different area. > > The reason we (Peter and I) care about this isn't because we enjoy being > obstructive. It's because there is a whole load of core (i.e. portable) > kernel code that is written to the *kernel* memory model. For example, > the scheduler, RCU, mutex implementations, perf, drivers, you name it. > > Consequently, it's important that the architecture back-ends implement > these portable primitives (e.g. smp_mb()) in a way that satisfies the > kernel memory model so that core code doesn't need to worry about the > underlying architecture for synchronisation purposes. You could turn > around and say "but if MIPS gets it wrong, then that's MIPS's problem", > but actually not having a general understanding of the ordering guarantees > provided by each architecture makes it very difficult for us to extend > the kernel memory model in such a way that it can be implemented > efficiently across the board *and* relied upon by core code. What Will said! Yes, you can cut corners within MIPS architecture-specific code, but primitives that are used in the core kernel really do need to work as expected. Thanx, Paul > The virtio patch at the start of the thread doesn't particularly concern > me. It's the other patches you linked to that implement acquire/release > that have me worried. > > Will > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from e37.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.158]:48037 "EHLO e37.co.us.ibm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754904AbcANRep (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:34:45 -0500 Received: from localhost by e37.co.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted for from ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:34:44 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 08:16:04 -0800 From: "Paul E. McKenney" Subject: Re: [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h Message-ID: <20160114161604.GT3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> Reply-To: paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com References: <20160112092711.GP6344@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20160112102555.GV6373@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20160112104012.GW6373@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20160112114111.GB15737@arm.com> <569565DA.2010903@imgtec.com> <20160113104516.GE25458@arm.com> <56969F4B.7070001@imgtec.com> <20160113204844.GV6357@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <5696BA6E.4070508@imgtec.com> <20160114120445.GB15828@arm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160114120445.GB15828@arm.com> Sender: linux-arch-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: To: Will Deacon Cc: Leonid Yegoshin , Peter Zijlstra , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann , linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Cooper , Russell King - ARM Linux , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Stefano Stabellini , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , "H. Peter Anvin" , Joe Perches , David Miller , linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-metag@vger.kernel.org, linux-mips@linux-mips.org, x86@kernel.org, user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, adi-buildroot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, Ralf Baechle , Ingo Molnar , ddaney.cavm@gmail.com, james.hogan@imgtec.com, Michael Ellerman Message-ID: <20160114161604.wtA5Kc3J-igN12D-bXtP5WzC1Juoqy1aq-OJGmF9RLk@z> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:04:45PM +0000, Will Deacon wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 12:58:22PM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > > On 01/13/2016 12:48 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > > >On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 11:02:35AM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > > > > > >>I ask HW team about it but I have a question - has it any relationship with > > >>replacing MIPS SYNC with lightweight SYNCs (SYNC_WMB etc)? > > >Of course. If you cannot explain the semantics of the primitives you > > >introduce, how can we judge the patch. > > > > > > > > You missed a point - it is a question about replacement of SYNC with > > lightweight primitives. It is NOT a question about multithread system > > behavior without any SYNC. The answer on a latest Will's question lies in > > different area. > > The reason we (Peter and I) care about this isn't because we enjoy being > obstructive. It's because there is a whole load of core (i.e. portable) > kernel code that is written to the *kernel* memory model. For example, > the scheduler, RCU, mutex implementations, perf, drivers, you name it. > > Consequently, it's important that the architecture back-ends implement > these portable primitives (e.g. smp_mb()) in a way that satisfies the > kernel memory model so that core code doesn't need to worry about the > underlying architecture for synchronisation purposes. You could turn > around and say "but if MIPS gets it wrong, then that's MIPS's problem", > but actually not having a general understanding of the ordering guarantees > provided by each architecture makes it very difficult for us to extend > the kernel memory model in such a way that it can be implemented > efficiently across the board *and* relied upon by core code. What Will said! Yes, you can cut corners within MIPS architecture-specific code, but primitives that are used in the core kernel really do need to work as expected. Thanx, Paul > The virtio patch at the start of the thread doesn't particularly concern > me. It's the other patches you linked to that implement acquire/release > that have me worried. > > Will >