From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Paul E. McKenney" Subject: Re: [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:24:33 -0800 Message-ID: <20160114222433.GI3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> References: <56969F4B.7070001@imgtec.com> <20160113204844.GV6357@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <5696BA6E.4070508@imgtec.com> <20160114120445.GB15828@arm.com> <20160114161604.GT3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> <5697FA0A.6040601@imgtec.com> <20160114201513.GI6357@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <56980933.2020801@imgtec.com> <20160114213440.GG3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> <56981708.4000007@imgtec.com> Reply-To: paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <56981708.4000007@imgtec.com> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Errors-To: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org To: Leonid Yegoshin Cc: linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Peter Zijlstra , Will Deacon , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, "H. Peter Anvin" , sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, Ingo Molnar , linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, Russell King - ARM Linux , user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, Michael Ellerman , x86@kernel.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, Ingo Molnar , linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, james.hogan@imgtec.com, Arnd Bergmann , Stefano Stabellini , adi-buildroot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, ddaney.cavm@gmail.com, Thomas Gleixner , linux-metag@vger.kernel.orglinux-a List-Id: linux-arch.vger.kernel.org On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 01:45:44PM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > On 01/14/2016 01:34 PM, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > >On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:46:43PM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > >>On 01/14/2016 12:15 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > >>>On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 11:42:02AM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > >>>>An the only point - please use an appropriate SYNC_* barriers instead of > >>>>heavy bold hammer. That stuff was design explicitly to support the > >>>>requirements of Documentation/memory-barriers.txt > >>>That's madness. That document changes from version to version as to what > >>>we _think_ the actual hardware does. It is _NOT_ a specification. > >>> > >>>You cannot design hardware from that. Its incomplete and fails to > >>>specify a bunch of things. It not a mathematically sound definition of a > >>>memory model. > >>> > >>>Please stop referring to that document for what a particular barrier > >>>_should_ do. Explain what MIPS does, so we can attempt to integrate > >>>this knowledge with our knowledge of PPC/ARM/Alpha/x86/etc. and improve > >>>upon our understanding of hardware and improve the Linux memory model. > >>I am afraid I can't help you here. It is very complicated stuff and > >>a model is actually doesn't fit your assumptions about CPUs well > >>without some simplifications which are based on what you want to > >>have. > >> > >>I say that SYNC_ACQUIRE/etc follows what you expect for smp_acquire > >>etc (basing on that document). And at least two CPU models were > >>tested with my patches (see it in LMO) for that last year and that > >>instructions are implemented now in engineering kernel. > >> > >>If you have something else in mind, you can ask me. But I prefer to > >>do not deviate too much from Documentation/memory-barriers.txt, for > >>exam - if it asks to have memory barrier somewhere, then I assume > >>the code should have it, and please - don't ask me a test which > >>violates the current version of document recommendations. > >> > >>For a moment I don't see a significant changes in this document for > >>MIPS Arch at least 1.5 year, and the only significant point is that > >>MIPS CPU Arch doesn't have yet smp_read_barrier_depends() and > >>smp_rmb() should be used instead. > > >Is SYNC_ACQUIRE a memory-barrier instruction that orders prior loads > >against later loads and stores? > > Yes, it is in MD00087 (table 6.6 of document Ver 6.04) - > https://imgtec.com/?do-download=4302 OK, it does look like it should work. Of course, if you can rely on straight address/data dependencies, that would be even better. > > If so, and if MIPS does not do > >ordering based on address and data dependencies, I suggest making > >read_barrier_depends() be a SYNC_ACQUIRE rather than SYNC_RMB. > > I understood that, after I see the example of using it. > Please consider to add that into Documentation/memory-barriers.txt > (it is not easy to find that this barrier is used for shared WRITE > basing on shared pointer), it would be helpful. Actually, the Linux kernel doesn't have an acquire barrier, just an smp_load_acquire(). Or did someone sneak one in while I wasn't looking? ;-) Thanx, Paul From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.149]:35334 "EHLO e31.co.us.ibm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1756318AbcANWY4 (ORCPT ); Thu, 14 Jan 2016 17:24:56 -0500 Received: from localhost by e31.co.us.ibm.com with IBM ESMTP SMTP Gateway: Authorized Use Only! Violators will be prosecuted for from ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:24:55 -0700 Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 14:24:33 -0800 From: "Paul E. McKenney" Subject: Re: [v3,11/41] mips: reuse asm-generic/barrier.h Message-ID: <20160114222433.GI3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> Reply-To: paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com References: <56969F4B.7070001@imgtec.com> <20160113204844.GV6357@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <5696BA6E.4070508@imgtec.com> <20160114120445.GB15828@arm.com> <20160114161604.GT3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> <5697FA0A.6040601@imgtec.com> <20160114201513.GI6357@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> <56980933.2020801@imgtec.com> <20160114213440.GG3818@linux.vnet.ibm.com> <56981708.4000007@imgtec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <56981708.4000007@imgtec.com> Sender: linux-arch-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: To: Leonid Yegoshin Cc: Peter Zijlstra , Will Deacon , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Arnd Bergmann , linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Andrew Cooper , Russell King - ARM Linux , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Stefano Stabellini , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , "H. Peter Anvin" , Joe Perches , David Miller , linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-metag@vger.kernel.org, linux-mips@linux-mips.org, x86@kernel.org, user-mode-linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, adi-buildroot-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, Ralf Baechle , Ingo Molnar , ddaney.cavm@gmail.com, james.hogan@imgtec.com, Michael Ellerman Message-ID: <20160114222433.vU6SciwYbjRh-d7-3xS-38QgdM8PDfAQqLetyF0TuP4@z> On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 01:45:44PM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > On 01/14/2016 01:34 PM, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > >On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 12:46:43PM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > >>On 01/14/2016 12:15 PM, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > >>>On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 11:42:02AM -0800, Leonid Yegoshin wrote: > >>>>An the only point - please use an appropriate SYNC_* barriers instead of > >>>>heavy bold hammer. That stuff was design explicitly to support the > >>>>requirements of Documentation/memory-barriers.txt > >>>That's madness. That document changes from version to version as to what > >>>we _think_ the actual hardware does. It is _NOT_ a specification. > >>> > >>>You cannot design hardware from that. Its incomplete and fails to > >>>specify a bunch of things. It not a mathematically sound definition of a > >>>memory model. > >>> > >>>Please stop referring to that document for what a particular barrier > >>>_should_ do. Explain what MIPS does, so we can attempt to integrate > >>>this knowledge with our knowledge of PPC/ARM/Alpha/x86/etc. and improve > >>>upon our understanding of hardware and improve the Linux memory model. > >>I am afraid I can't help you here. It is very complicated stuff and > >>a model is actually doesn't fit your assumptions about CPUs well > >>without some simplifications which are based on what you want to > >>have. > >> > >>I say that SYNC_ACQUIRE/etc follows what you expect for smp_acquire > >>etc (basing on that document). And at least two CPU models were > >>tested with my patches (see it in LMO) for that last year and that > >>instructions are implemented now in engineering kernel. > >> > >>If you have something else in mind, you can ask me. But I prefer to > >>do not deviate too much from Documentation/memory-barriers.txt, for > >>exam - if it asks to have memory barrier somewhere, then I assume > >>the code should have it, and please - don't ask me a test which > >>violates the current version of document recommendations. > >> > >>For a moment I don't see a significant changes in this document for > >>MIPS Arch at least 1.5 year, and the only significant point is that > >>MIPS CPU Arch doesn't have yet smp_read_barrier_depends() and > >>smp_rmb() should be used instead. > > >Is SYNC_ACQUIRE a memory-barrier instruction that orders prior loads > >against later loads and stores? > > Yes, it is in MD00087 (table 6.6 of document Ver 6.04) - > https://imgtec.com/?do-download=4302 OK, it does look like it should work. Of course, if you can rely on straight address/data dependencies, that would be even better. > > If so, and if MIPS does not do > >ordering based on address and data dependencies, I suggest making > >read_barrier_depends() be a SYNC_ACQUIRE rather than SYNC_RMB. > > I understood that, after I see the example of using it. > Please consider to add that into Documentation/memory-barriers.txt > (it is not easy to find that this barrier is used for shared WRITE > basing on shared pointer), it would be helpful. Actually, the Linux kernel doesn't have an acquire barrier, just an smp_load_acquire(). Or did someone sneak one in while I wasn't looking? ;-) Thanx, Paul