From: Alan Cox <gnomes@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
To: Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com>,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Greg KH <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Elena Reshetova <elena.reshetova@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] asm/generic: introduce if_nospec and nospec_barrier
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2018 01:41:00 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180104014100.3786e686@alans-desktop> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1801040221070.27010@gjva.wvxbf.pm>
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 02:27:54 +0100 (CET)
Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2018, Alan Cox wrote:
>
> > There are people trying to tune coverity and other tool rules to identify
> > cases,
>
> Yeah, but that (and *especially* Coverity) is so inconvenient to be
> applied to each and every patch ... that this is not the way to go.
Agreed enitely - and coverity is non-free which is even worse as a
dependancy. Right now we are in the 'what could be done quickly by a few
people' space. The papers are now published, so the world can work on
better solutions and extending more convenient tooling.
> If the CPU speculation can cause these kinds of side-effects, it just must
> not happen, full stop.
At which point your performance will resemble that of a 2012 atom
processor at best.
> OS trying to work it around is just a whack-a-mole
> (which we can apply for old silicon, sure ... but not something that
> becomes a new standard) that's never going to lead to any ultimate
> solution.
In the ideal world it becomes possible for future processors to resolve
such markings down to no-ops. Will that be possible or will we get more
explicit ways to tell the processor what is unsafe - I don't
personally know but I do know that turning off speculation is not the
answer.
Clearly if the CPU must be told then C is going to have to grow some
syntax for it and some other languages are going to see 'taint' moving
from a purely software construct to a real processor one.
Alan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-01-04 1:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 82+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-01-03 22:38 [RFC PATCH 0/4] API for inhibiting speculative arbitrary read primitives Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 1/4] asm-generic/barrier: add generic nospec helpers Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 12:00 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-05 4:21 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-05 9:15 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 2/4] Documentation: document " Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 3/4] arm64: implement nospec_{load,ptr}() Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` [RFC PATCH 4/4] bpf: inhibit speculated out-of-bounds pointers Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 22:38 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-03 23:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-03 23:45 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-01-04 10:59 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 0:15 ` [RFC PATCH] asm/generic: introduce if_nospec and nospec_barrier Dan Williams
2018-01-04 0:15 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 0:39 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 1:07 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 1:13 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 1:13 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 6:28 ` Julia Lawall
2018-01-04 17:58 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 19:26 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 19:26 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 21:43 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 22:20 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 22:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 22:55 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 23:06 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 23:11 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 23:11 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-05 0:24 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 22:44 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 23:12 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 23:12 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 23:21 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 23:33 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-05 8:11 ` Julia Lawall
2018-01-04 1:27 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 1:27 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 1:41 ` Alan Cox [this message]
2018-01-04 1:47 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 1:47 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 19:39 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 20:32 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 20:32 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 20:39 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 21:23 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 21:23 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 21:48 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 1:51 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 1:51 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 1:54 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 1:54 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-01-04 3:10 ` Williams, Dan J
2018-01-04 4:44 ` Al Viro
2018-01-04 5:44 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 5:49 ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-04 5:49 ` Dave Hansen
2018-01-04 5:50 ` Al Viro
2018-01-04 5:55 ` Al Viro
2018-01-04 6:42 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 5:01 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-04 6:32 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 14:54 ` Eric W. Biederman
2018-01-04 16:39 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 20:56 ` Pavel Machek
2018-01-04 11:47 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 11:47 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-04 22:09 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-05 14:40 ` Mark Rutland
2018-01-05 16:44 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-05 18:05 ` Dan Williams
2018-01-04 1:59 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 1:59 ` Jiri Kosina
2018-01-04 2:15 ` Alan Cox
2018-01-04 3:12 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2018-01-04 9:16 ` Reshetova, Elena
2018-01-04 9:16 ` Reshetova, Elena
2018-01-04 20:40 ` Pavel Machek
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