From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dave Martin Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/14] prctl.2: ffix quotation mark tweaks Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:51:15 +0100 Message-ID: <20200513115115.GM21779@arm.com> References: <1589301419-24459-1-git-send-email-Dave.Martin@arm.com> <1589301419-24459-7-git-send-email-Dave.Martin@arm.com> <7afe32a5-9675-74d4-7c39-f1271d475afd@gmail.com> <20200513113949.GI21779@arm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: linux-man-owner-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" Cc: linux-man-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, linux-arch-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, linux-arm-kernel-IAPFreCvJWM7uuMidbF8XUB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org List-Id: linux-arch.vger.kernel.org On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 01:46:22PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > On 5/13/20 1:39 PM, Dave Martin wrote: > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:11:21PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >> Hello Dave, > >> > >> On 5/12/20 6:36 PM, Dave Martin wrote: > >>> Convert quote marks used for information terms in prose to use > >>> \(oq .. \(cq, for better graphical rendering. > >>> > >>> Signed-off-by: Dave Martin > >> > >> Again, this is a patch that I would prefer to see near the end > >> of a series, rather than in the middle. > >> > >> I'm currently agnostic about this change. But, I do not > >> want to apply this patch, since no other pages in man-pages > >> use \(oq...\(cq. > >> > >> I haven't applied this patch. Luckily, that does not prevent > >> any of the later patches applying. > > > > I'll be careful to move this sort of thing to the end of a series in > > future. > > > > This was a provocative patch, so I'm happy for it to be dropped. > > > > > > The main motivation was that ' renders to PostScript etc. as a closing > > quote, which is fine for apostrophes but not fine for an opening quote > > mark. Most of the current quotes in here are actually ", but I don't > > see an actual promise from groff that that renders as a neutral glyph > > either, so it seemed best to avoid. For now " does seem to be rendered > > with a neutral glyph (i.e., neither opening or closing). > > See my commit 11b0b31a14bd2c7dcb0cf7bc815b4c1887444a89, just pushed, > which addresses the ' issues. > > >>> --- > >>> > >>> Note, this can lead to misrendering on badly-configured systems. > >>> However, many man pages do it. > >> > >> Can you say some more about this please? > > > > Terminal character maps need to match LANG etc. in order for fancy > > characters coming out of nroff to display correctly. > > > > ssh attempts to send LANG across, but terminal sessions between systems > > that have different locales installed can be a problem, as can dumb > > serial links that don't magically pass the locale and terminal type > > settings across. > > > > The fact that I hit this problem a lot in some situations (particularly > > the serial link case) suggested to me that fancy characters are > > considered fine nowadays, but perhaps I'd need to dig into it some more > > to understand the situation fully. > > Thanks for the clarification. > > > (There are one or two ' that should really be \(aq anyway, but I'll > > try to address that separately.) > > See above. I presume that patch is what you wanted? Yup, works for me. I'll keep an eye out for other instances, but those were the ones that stood out. Cheers ---Dave From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from foss.arm.com ([217.140.110.172]:44228 "EHLO foss.arm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1725982AbgEMLvS (ORCPT ); Wed, 13 May 2020 07:51:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:51:15 +0100 From: Dave Martin Subject: Re: [PATCH 06/14] prctl.2: ffix quotation mark tweaks Message-ID: <20200513115115.GM21779@arm.com> References: <1589301419-24459-1-git-send-email-Dave.Martin@arm.com> <1589301419-24459-7-git-send-email-Dave.Martin@arm.com> <7afe32a5-9675-74d4-7c39-f1271d475afd@gmail.com> <20200513113949.GI21779@arm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Sender: linux-arch-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: To: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Message-ID: <20200513115115.jpBamJXc0FvtCI9HJw8eLYc1nvtW6ujIyEamWoHaPBc@z> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 01:46:22PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > On 5/13/20 1:39 PM, Dave Martin wrote: > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 12:11:21PM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > >> Hello Dave, > >> > >> On 5/12/20 6:36 PM, Dave Martin wrote: > >>> Convert quote marks used for information terms in prose to use > >>> \(oq .. \(cq, for better graphical rendering. > >>> > >>> Signed-off-by: Dave Martin > >> > >> Again, this is a patch that I would prefer to see near the end > >> of a series, rather than in the middle. > >> > >> I'm currently agnostic about this change. But, I do not > >> want to apply this patch, since no other pages in man-pages > >> use \(oq...\(cq. > >> > >> I haven't applied this patch. Luckily, that does not prevent > >> any of the later patches applying. > > > > I'll be careful to move this sort of thing to the end of a series in > > future. > > > > This was a provocative patch, so I'm happy for it to be dropped. > > > > > > The main motivation was that ' renders to PostScript etc. as a closing > > quote, which is fine for apostrophes but not fine for an opening quote > > mark. Most of the current quotes in here are actually ", but I don't > > see an actual promise from groff that that renders as a neutral glyph > > either, so it seemed best to avoid. For now " does seem to be rendered > > with a neutral glyph (i.e., neither opening or closing). > > See my commit 11b0b31a14bd2c7dcb0cf7bc815b4c1887444a89, just pushed, > which addresses the ' issues. > > >>> --- > >>> > >>> Note, this can lead to misrendering on badly-configured systems. > >>> However, many man pages do it. > >> > >> Can you say some more about this please? > > > > Terminal character maps need to match LANG etc. in order for fancy > > characters coming out of nroff to display correctly. > > > > ssh attempts to send LANG across, but terminal sessions between systems > > that have different locales installed can be a problem, as can dumb > > serial links that don't magically pass the locale and terminal type > > settings across. > > > > The fact that I hit this problem a lot in some situations (particularly > > the serial link case) suggested to me that fancy characters are > > considered fine nowadays, but perhaps I'd need to dig into it some more > > to understand the situation fully. > > Thanks for the clarification. > > > (There are one or two ' that should really be \(aq anyway, but I'll > > try to address that separately.) > > See above. I presume that patch is what you wanted? Yup, works for me. I'll keep an eye out for other instances, but those were the ones that stood out. Cheers ---Dave