From: Roel Kluin <12o3l@tiscali.nl>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>, Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
arjan@infradead.org, sfr@canb.auug.org.au,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-next@vger.kernel.org,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:12:48 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <47B32510.20200@tiscali.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0802121133210.2920@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Linus Torvalds wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Greg KH wrote:
>>> That's the point.
>> Not it isn't. To quote you a number of years ago:
>> "Linux is evolution, not intelligent design"
>
> Umm. Have you read a lot of books on evolution?
>
> It doesn't sound like you have.
>
> The fact is, evolution often does odd (and "suboptimal") things exactly
> because it does incremental changes that DO NOT BREAK at any point.
This is not entirely true if the pressure for changes are removed. For
instance in mammals the bones in the ear are what used to be gills in fish.
When fish became amphibians the gills weren't needed as much and evolution
took a side path.
> The examples are legion. The mammalian eye has the retina "backwards",
> with the blind spot appearing because the fundmanetal infrastructure (the
> optical nerves) actually being in *front* of the light sensor and needing
> a hole in the retina to get the information (and blood flow) to go to the
> brain!
>
> In other words, exactly *because* evolution requires "bisectability" (any
> non-viable point in between is a dead end by definition) and does things
> incrementally, it doesn't do big flips. It fixes the problems on an
> incremental scale both when it comes to the details and when it comes to
> both "details" (actual protein-coding genes that code directly for some
> expression) and "infrastructure" (homeobox and non-coding genes).
In nature there is a lot of duplication: several copies of genes can exist
and different copies may have a distinct evolution. There is also a lot of
'junk' DNA that doesn't code for anything (although it may have regulating
functions). In there some copies of genes may remain that are inactivated,
as well as parts of virusses, slowly obtaining random mutations because
there is no pressure on the evolution of them. Some may eventually become
active again and have different functions.
The duplication also often ensures there is fallback when random mutations
are acquired and a protein is knocked out. Besides the two chromosomes
several proteins also can have overlapping functions. The result is more
like a balance.
Evolution in nature and changes in code are different because in code junk
and bugs are constantly removed. In biology junk is allowed and may provide
a pool for future development. Linux development is intended and not
survival.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-02-13 17:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 183+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-02-12 1:02 Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 1:36 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 2:23 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 3:32 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 2:25 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 4:21 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 4:31 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 4:43 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 5:17 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 5:53 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 6:07 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 15:07 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 15:32 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 16:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 6:11 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 6:21 ` Harvey Harrison
2008-02-12 16:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 16:46 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 17:03 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 17:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 17:38 ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-12 17:41 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 17:53 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 18:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:25 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 18:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 18:24 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 18:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 18:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:19 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:05 ` Russell King
2008-02-13 12:06 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13 12:19 ` Russell King
2008-02-12 19:41 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 21:51 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 22:17 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 22:20 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 22:41 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 23:01 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 23:27 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:55 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:59 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 23:26 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:07 ` Russell King
2008-02-13 0:36 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 0:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:25 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 19:17 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 0:33 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 20:18 ` Jiri Kosina
2008-02-12 21:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 0:27 ` David Miller
2008-02-17 12:42 ` David Woodhouse
2008-02-12 17:48 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:15 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 19:46 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 20:50 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:08 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 21:20 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 10:54 ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-02-13 17:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12 19:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 20:48 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:25 ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-02-12 23:49 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-15 23:23 ` Russell King
2008-02-15 23:37 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-15 23:47 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-16 0:12 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16 0:17 ` Russell King
2008-02-16 0:25 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-13 17:12 ` Roel Kluin [this message]
2008-02-13 18:08 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-15 23:05 ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-16 0:03 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-13 18:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-15 22:59 ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-13 0:41 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 0:47 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13 1:23 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 7:38 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-13 8:45 ` distributed module configuration [Was: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))] Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13 8:54 ` distributed module configuration David Miller
2008-02-13 9:04 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13 9:06 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 10:09 ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2008-02-17 15:51 ` Pavel Machek
2008-02-14 0:56 ` distributed module configuration [Was: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))] Roman Zippel
2008-02-14 8:48 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-14 22:38 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13 0:31 ` Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) David Miller
2008-02-12 18:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 20:03 ` Russell King
2008-02-12 20:23 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 20:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 17:53 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12 23:58 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 0:29 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 0:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:24 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 2:16 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-13 10:58 ` Catalin Marinas
2008-02-13 6:16 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 7:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-16 11:16 ` Thomas Gleixner
2008-02-13 10:36 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-13 17:55 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:48 ` Catalin Marinas
2008-02-13 0:37 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13 1:16 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 1:46 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13 0:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:20 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 1:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:46 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 2:25 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 2:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 3:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 3:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 3:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 5:17 ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-02-13 4:10 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 5:14 ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-02-13 4:19 ` Paul Mundt
2008-02-13 4:52 ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-12 4:45 ` Trond Myklebust
2008-02-12 5:11 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12 6:02 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 7:06 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 22:44 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12 6:15 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 11:57 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 14:57 ` Greg KH
2008-02-14 8:14 ` Russell King
2008-02-14 12:22 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-14 18:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-14 18:32 ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-14 20:32 ` Greg KH
2008-02-14 20:39 ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-15 6:44 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15 6:29 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15 9:26 ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-15 14:52 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15 1:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-02-20 14:55 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-20 15:38 ` Stefan Richter
2008-02-20 15:42 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-20 17:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-21 13:22 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12 5:07 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 5:56 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 6:10 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 16:24 ` multiple drivers, single device (was Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))) Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 16:42 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 17:42 ` multiple drivers, single device Roland Dreier
2008-02-12 17:51 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 17:56 ` multiple drivers, single device (was Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))) Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 18:10 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:31 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 18:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 21:38 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:34 ` Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) Jan Engelhardt
2008-02-12 18:02 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13 1:20 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-13 5:03 ` Kumar Gala
2008-02-14 23:22 ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-15 1:02 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-16 15:14 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-17 5:25 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-17 14:27 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-16 0:09 ` Russell King
2008-02-16 0:21 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16 0:31 ` Russell King
2008-02-16 0:45 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16 0:42 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2008-02-16 8:08 ` Russell King
2008-02-26 3:54 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-29 12:45 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-29 13:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-29 23:45 ` Stephen Rothwell
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