From: Roel Kluin <12o3l@tiscali.nl>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>, Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
arjan@infradead.org, sfr@canb.auug.org.au,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-next@vger.kernel.org,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:59:33 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <47B61955.5020100@tiscali.nl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.1.00.0802131002250.2920@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Linus Torvalds wrote:
>
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008, Roel Kluin wrote:
>> In nature there is a lot of duplication: several copies of genes can exist
>> and different copies may have a distinct evolution.
>
> This is true of very complex animals, but much less so when looking at
> things like bacteria (and arguably, any current sw project is closer to
> bacteria in complexity than anything mammalian).
>
> In bacteria (and viruses), duplication of DNA/RNA is a big cost of living
> in general, and as a result there is *much* less junk DNA. So in an
> evolutionary sense, it's much closer to what the kernel should have (with
> occasional duplication of code and interfaces to allow new functionality,
> but rather aggressive pruning of the excess baggage).
I like the comparison, and while I wrote my comment I have to admit I was
also thinking of bacteria and virusses as an exception: There the speed of
replication can be an important factor for survival. Less DNA means faster
replication and therefore the pressure is on removal of junk DNA. It can
be disputed however that removal of 'junk sourcecode' is a survival factor
for the linux kernel but the benefit may be disputable as well.
> In other words, all of these choices are a matter of "balance". In some
> areas, excess code is not a sufficient downside, and we keep even broken
> source code around with no actual function, "just because" (or rather,
> because the cost of carrying it around is so small that nobody cares).
>
> That's true in the kernel as in biology: check out not just deprecated
> code, but the drivers and other odds-and-ends that are explicitly marked
> as non-coding DNA (we just happen to call them BROKEN in our Kconfig).
>
> Linus
Maybe we can elaborate a bit on this comparison, just for fun:
I think not the linux kernel alone, but rather the entire Linux OS could
be compared with a cell. The kernel source encodes vital software parts
including the interactions with hardware - the environment for the
computer. Gcc can be compared with the (transcription and) translation
machinery. DNA can be seen as a language that encodes proteins, with
biological functions: Some are vital, including ones that allow
interactions with the environment: The cellular environment is beyond
the membrane. Interactions occur through membrane receptors, channels,
etc.
Interaction between proteins can be compared with functions selectively
calling other functions. Activation of certain proteins can cause a
cascade of protein interactions, comparable with function calls in a
loop: the activated protein activates particular protein(s) several
times. Some proteins influence intracellular messengers: cellular
global variables.
Transmembrane receptors responding to extracellular signals transmit
this through conformational changes across the membrane to the
intracellular region: These structural changes may allow interactions
with new proteins. Maybe comparable with a combination of hardware
interrupts, signals and the userspace?
The response to extracellular signals often depends on several
sequential interactions between proteins. This provides a protective
layer that can be compared with the kernelspace layer. This is where
the comparison probably becomes too biased to continue.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2008-02-15 23:00 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 183+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2008-02-12 1:02 Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 1:36 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 2:23 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 3:32 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 2:25 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 4:21 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 4:31 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 4:43 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 5:17 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 5:53 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 6:07 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 15:07 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 15:32 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 16:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 6:11 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 6:21 ` Harvey Harrison
2008-02-12 16:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 16:46 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 17:03 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 17:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 17:38 ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-12 17:41 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 17:53 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 18:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:25 ` Benny Halevy
2008-02-12 18:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 18:24 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-12 18:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 18:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:19 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:05 ` Russell King
2008-02-13 12:06 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13 12:19 ` Russell King
2008-02-12 19:41 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 21:51 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 22:17 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 22:20 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 22:41 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 23:01 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 23:27 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:55 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:59 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-12 23:26 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:07 ` Russell King
2008-02-13 0:36 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 0:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:25 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 19:17 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 0:33 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 20:18 ` Jiri Kosina
2008-02-12 21:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 0:27 ` David Miller
2008-02-17 12:42 ` David Woodhouse
2008-02-12 17:48 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:26 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 19:15 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 19:46 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 20:50 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:08 ` Al Viro
2008-02-12 21:20 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:36 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 10:54 ` Christoph Hellwig
2008-02-13 17:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12 19:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 20:48 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 21:25 ` Matthew Wilcox
2008-02-12 23:49 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-15 23:23 ` Russell King
2008-02-15 23:37 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-15 23:47 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-16 0:12 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16 0:17 ` Russell King
2008-02-16 0:25 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-13 17:12 ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-13 18:08 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-15 23:05 ` Roel Kluin
2008-02-16 0:03 ` Alan Cox
2008-02-13 18:09 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-15 22:59 ` Roel Kluin [this message]
2008-02-13 0:41 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 0:47 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13 1:23 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 7:38 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-13 8:45 ` distributed module configuration [Was: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))] Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13 8:54 ` distributed module configuration David Miller
2008-02-13 9:04 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13 9:06 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 10:09 ` Giacomo A. Catenazzi
2008-02-17 15:51 ` Pavel Machek
2008-02-14 0:56 ` distributed module configuration [Was: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))] Roman Zippel
2008-02-14 8:48 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-14 22:38 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-02-13 0:31 ` Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) David Miller
2008-02-12 18:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 20:03 ` Russell King
2008-02-12 20:23 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 20:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 17:53 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-12 23:58 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 0:29 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 0:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:24 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 2:16 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-13 10:58 ` Catalin Marinas
2008-02-13 6:16 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 7:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2008-02-16 11:16 ` Thomas Gleixner
2008-02-13 10:36 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-13 17:55 ` Greg KH
2008-02-13 10:48 ` Catalin Marinas
2008-02-13 0:37 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13 1:16 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 1:46 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-13 0:44 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:20 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 1:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 1:46 ` David Miller
2008-02-13 2:25 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 2:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 3:00 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 3:31 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 3:48 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-13 5:17 ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-02-13 4:10 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-13 5:14 ` Nicolas Pitre
2008-02-13 4:19 ` Paul Mundt
2008-02-13 4:52 ` J. Bruce Fields
2008-02-12 4:45 ` Trond Myklebust
2008-02-12 5:11 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12 6:02 ` David Miller
2008-02-12 7:06 ` Arjan van de Ven
2008-02-12 22:44 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12 6:15 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-12 11:57 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 14:57 ` Greg KH
2008-02-14 8:14 ` Russell King
2008-02-14 12:22 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-14 18:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-14 18:32 ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-14 20:32 ` Greg KH
2008-02-14 20:39 ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-15 6:44 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15 6:29 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15 9:26 ` Gene Heskett
2008-02-15 14:52 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2008-02-15 1:11 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-02-20 14:55 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-20 15:38 ` Stefan Richter
2008-02-20 15:42 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-20 17:13 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-21 13:22 ` Theodore Tso
2008-02-12 5:07 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 5:56 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 6:10 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-12 16:24 ` multiple drivers, single device (was Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))) Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 16:42 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 17:42 ` multiple drivers, single device Roland Dreier
2008-02-12 17:51 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:08 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 17:56 ` multiple drivers, single device (was Re: Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-))) Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 18:10 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 18:31 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-12 18:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2008-02-12 21:38 ` Greg KH
2008-02-12 22:34 ` Announce: Linux-next (Or Andrew's dream :-)) Jan Engelhardt
2008-02-12 18:02 ` Jeff Garzik
2008-02-13 1:20 ` Randy Dunlap
2008-02-13 5:03 ` Kumar Gala
2008-02-14 23:22 ` Roland Dreier
2008-02-15 1:02 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-16 15:14 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-17 5:25 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-17 14:27 ` James Bottomley
2008-02-16 0:09 ` Russell King
2008-02-16 0:21 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16 0:31 ` Russell King
2008-02-16 0:45 ` Andrew Morton
2008-02-16 0:42 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2008-02-16 8:08 ` Russell King
2008-02-26 3:54 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-29 12:45 ` Stephen Rothwell
2008-02-29 13:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2008-02-29 23:45 ` Stephen Rothwell
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