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[2003:cb:c725:8700:77c7:bde:9446:8d34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-37d1690f0b2sm5213418f8f.9.2024.10.07.01.44.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Oct 2024 01:44:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8c7fbaf1-61a0-4f55-8466-1ab40464d9db@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 10:44:14 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-arch@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 00/10] Add support for shared PTEs across processes To: Dave Hansen , Anthony Yznaga , akpm@linux-foundation.org, willy@infradead.org, markhemm@googlemail.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, khalid@kernel.org Cc: andreyknvl@gmail.com, luto@kernel.org, brauner@kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, ebiederm@xmission.com, catalin.marinas@arm.com, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, mhiramat@kernel.org, rostedt@goodmis.org, vasily.averin@linux.dev, xhao@linux.alibaba.com, pcc@google.com, neilb@suse.de, maz@kernel.org, David Rientjes References: <20240903232241.43995-1-anthony.yznaga@oracle.com> <9927f9a3-efba-4053-8384-cc69c7949ea6@intel.com> From: David Hildenbrand Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: <9927f9a3-efba-4053-8384-cc69c7949ea6@intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 02.10.24 19:35, Dave Hansen wrote: > We were just chatting about this on David Rientjes's MM alignment call. Unfortunately I was not able to attend this time, my body decided it's a good idea to stay in bed for a couple of days. > I thought I'd try to give a little brain > > Let's start by thinking about KVM and secondary MMUs. KVM has a primary > mm: the QEMU (or whatever) process mm. The virtualization (EPT/NPT) > tables get entries that effectively mirror the primary mm page tables > and constitute a secondary MMU. If the primary page tables change, > mmu_notifiers ensure that the changes get reflected into the > virtualization tables and also that the virtualization paging structure > caches are flushed. > > msharefs is doing something very similar. But, in the msharefs case, > the secondary MMUs are actually normal CPU MMUs. The page tables are > normal old page tables and the caches are the normal old TLB. That's > what makes it so confusing: we have lots of infrastructure for dealing > with that "stuff" (CPU page tables and TLB), but msharefs has > short-circuited the infrastructure and it doesn't work any more. It's quite different IMHO, to a degree that I believe they are different beasts: Secondary MMUs: * "Belongs" to same MM context and the primary MMU (process page tables) * Maintains separate tables/PTEs, in completely separate page table hierarchy * Notifiers make sure the secondary structure stays in sync (update PTEs, flush TLB) mshare: * Possibly mapped by many different MMs. Likely nothing stops us from having on MM map multiple different mshare fds/ * Updating the PTEs directly affects all other MM page table structures (and possibly any secondary MMUs! scary) I better not think about the complexity of seconary MMUs + mshare (e.g., KVM with mshare in guest memory): MMU notifiers for all MMs must be called ... > > Basically, I think it makes a lot of sense to check what KVM (or another > mmu_notifier user) is doing and make sure that msharefs is following its > lead. For instance, KVM _should_ have the exact same "page free" > flushing issue where it gets the MMU notifier call but the page may > still be in the secondary MMU. I _think_ KVM fixes it with an extra > page refcount that it takes when it first walks the primary page tables. > > But the short of it is that the msharefs host mm represents a "secondary > MMU". I don't think it is really that special of an MMU other than the > fact that it has an mm_struct. Not sure I agree ... IMHO these are two orthogonal things. Unless we want MMU notifiers to "update" MM primary MMUs (there is not really anything to update ...), but not sure if that is what we are looking for. What you note about TLB flushing in the other mail makes sense, not sure how this interacts with any secondary MMUs .... -- Cheers, David / dhildenb