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(p200300d82f196500e1c182164c25efe4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:d8:2f19:6500:e1c1:8216:4c25:efe4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-447f78b2f19sm232109465e9.32.2025.05.26.05.57.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 May 2025 05:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <955fd396-10b1-48cb-977d-74f3e158b1cd@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 26 May 2025 14:57:17 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-arch@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/5] add process_madvise() flags to modify behaviour To: Shakeel Butt Cc: Lorenzo Stoakes , Andrew Morton , "Liam R . Howlett" , Vlastimil Babka , Jann Horn , Arnd Bergmann , Christian Brauner , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, SeongJae Park , Usama Arif References: <7tzfy4mmbo2utodqr5clk24mcawef5l2gwrgmnp5jmqxmhkpav@jpzaaoys6jro> <5604190c-3309-4cb8-b746-2301615d933c@lucifer.local> <226owobtknee4iirb7sdm3hs26u4nvytdugxgxtz23kcrx6tzg@nryescaj266u> <7a214bee-d184-460f-88d6-2249b9d513ba@lucifer.local> <9433c2d6-200c-4320-80f3-840ca5e66f64@redhat.com> From: David Hildenbrand Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=david@redhat.com; keydata= xsFNBFXLn5EBEAC+zYvAFJxCBY9Tr1xZgcESmxVNI/0ffzE/ZQOiHJl6mGkmA1R7/uUpiCjJ dBrn+lhhOYjjNefFQou6478faXE6o2AhmebqT4KiQoUQFV4R7y1KMEKoSyy8hQaK1umALTdL QZLQMzNE74ap+GDK0wnacPQFpcG1AE9RMq3aeErY5tujekBS32jfC/7AnH7I0v1v1TbbK3Gp XNeiN4QroO+5qaSr0ID2sz5jtBLRb15RMre27E1ImpaIv2Jw8NJgW0k/D1RyKCwaTsgRdwuK Kx/Y91XuSBdz0uOyU/S8kM1+ag0wvsGlpBVxRR/xw/E8M7TEwuCZQArqqTCmkG6HGcXFT0V9 PXFNNgV5jXMQRwU0O/ztJIQqsE5LsUomE//bLwzj9IVsaQpKDqW6TAPjcdBDPLHvriq7kGjt WhVhdl0qEYB8lkBEU7V2Yb+SYhmhpDrti9Fq1EsmhiHSkxJcGREoMK/63r9WLZYI3+4W2rAc UucZa4OT27U5ZISjNg3Ev0rxU5UH2/pT4wJCfxwocmqaRr6UYmrtZmND89X0KigoFD/XSeVv jwBRNjPAubK9/k5NoRrYqztM9W6sJqrH8+UWZ1Idd/DdmogJh0gNC0+N42Za9yBRURfIdKSb B3JfpUqcWwE7vUaYrHG1nw54pLUoPG6sAA7Mehl3nd4pZUALHwARAQABzSREYXZpZCBIaWxk ZW5icmFuZCA8ZGF2aWRAcmVkaGF0LmNvbT7CwZgEEwEIAEICGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQW AgMBAh4BAheAAhkBFiEEG9nKrXNcTDpGDfzKTd4Q9wD/g1oFAl8Ox4kFCRKpKXgACgkQTd4Q 9wD/g1oHcA//a6Tj7SBNjFNM1iNhWUo1lxAja0lpSodSnB2g4FCZ4R61SBR4l/psBL73xktp rDHrx4aSpwkRP6Epu6mLvhlfjmkRG4OynJ5HG1gfv7RJJfnUdUM1z5kdS8JBrOhMJS2c/gPf wv1TGRq2XdMPnfY2o0CxRqpcLkx4vBODvJGl2mQyJF/gPepdDfcT8/PY9BJ7FL6Hrq1gnAo4 3Iv9qV0JiT2wmZciNyYQhmA1V6dyTRiQ4YAc31zOo2IM+xisPzeSHgw3ONY/XhYvfZ9r7W1l pNQdc2G+o4Di9NPFHQQhDw3YTRR1opJaTlRDzxYxzU6ZnUUBghxt9cwUWTpfCktkMZiPSDGd KgQBjnweV2jw9UOTxjb4LXqDjmSNkjDdQUOU69jGMUXgihvo4zhYcMX8F5gWdRtMR7DzW/YE BgVcyxNkMIXoY1aYj6npHYiNQesQlqjU6azjbH70/SXKM5tNRplgW8TNprMDuntdvV9wNkFs 9TyM02V5aWxFfI42+aivc4KEw69SE9KXwC7FSf5wXzuTot97N9Phj/Z3+jx443jo2NR34XgF 89cct7wJMjOF7bBefo0fPPZQuIma0Zym71cP61OP/i11ahNye6HGKfxGCOcs5wW9kRQEk8P9 M/k2wt3mt/fCQnuP/mWutNPt95w9wSsUyATLmtNrwccz63XOwU0EVcufkQEQAOfX3n0g0fZz Bgm/S2zF/kxQKCEKP8ID+Vz8sy2GpDvveBq4H2Y34XWsT1zLJdvqPI4af4ZSMxuerWjXbVWb T6d4odQIG0fKx4F8NccDqbgHeZRNajXeeJ3R7gAzvWvQNLz4piHrO/B4tf8svmRBL0ZB5P5A 2uhdwLU3NZuK22zpNn4is87BPWF8HhY0L5fafgDMOqnf4guJVJPYNPhUFzXUbPqOKOkL8ojk CXxkOFHAbjstSK5Ca3fKquY3rdX3DNo+EL7FvAiw1mUtS+5GeYE+RMnDCsVFm/C7kY8c2d0G NWkB9pJM5+mnIoFNxy7YBcldYATVeOHoY4LyaUWNnAvFYWp08dHWfZo9WCiJMuTfgtH9tc75 7QanMVdPt6fDK8UUXIBLQ2TWr/sQKE9xtFuEmoQGlE1l6bGaDnnMLcYu+Asp3kDT0w4zYGsx 5r6XQVRH4+5N6eHZiaeYtFOujp5n+pjBaQK7wUUjDilPQ5QMzIuCL4YjVoylWiBNknvQWBXS lQCWmavOT9sttGQXdPCC5ynI+1ymZC1ORZKANLnRAb0NH/UCzcsstw2TAkFnMEbo9Zu9w7Kv AxBQXWeXhJI9XQssfrf4Gusdqx8nPEpfOqCtbbwJMATbHyqLt7/oz/5deGuwxgb65pWIzufa N7eop7uh+6bezi+rugUI+w6DABEBAAHCwXwEGAEIACYCGwwWIQQb2cqtc1xMOkYN/MpN3hD3 AP+DWgUCXw7HsgUJEqkpoQAKCRBN3hD3AP+DWrrpD/4qS3dyVRxDcDHIlmguXjC1Q5tZTwNB boaBTPHSy/Nksu0eY7x6HfQJ3xajVH32Ms6t1trDQmPx2iP5+7iDsb7OKAb5eOS8h+BEBDeq 3ecsQDv0fFJOA9ag5O3LLNk+3x3q7e0uo06XMaY7UHS341ozXUUI7wC7iKfoUTv03iO9El5f XpNMx/YrIMduZ2+nd9Di7o5+KIwlb2mAB9sTNHdMrXesX8eBL6T9b+MZJk+mZuPxKNVfEQMQ a5SxUEADIPQTPNvBewdeI80yeOCrN+Zzwy/Mrx9EPeu59Y5vSJOx/z6OUImD/GhX7Xvkt3kq Er5KTrJz3++B6SH9pum9PuoE/k+nntJkNMmQpR4MCBaV/J9gIOPGodDKnjdng+mXliF3Ptu6 3oxc2RCyGzTlxyMwuc2U5Q7KtUNTdDe8T0uE+9b8BLMVQDDfJjqY0VVqSUwImzTDLX9S4g/8 kC4HRcclk8hpyhY2jKGluZO0awwTIMgVEzmTyBphDg/Gx7dZU1Xf8HFuE+UZ5UDHDTnwgv7E th6RC9+WrhDNspZ9fJjKWRbveQgUFCpe1sa77LAw+XFrKmBHXp9ZVIe90RMe2tRL06BGiRZr jPrnvUsUUsjRoRNJjKKA/REq+sAnhkNPPZ/NNMjaZ5b8Tovi8C0tmxiCHaQYqj7G2rgnT0kt WNyWQQ== Organization: Red Hat In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> To summarize my current view: >> >> 1) ebpf: most people are are not a fan of that, and I agree, at least >> for this purpose. If we were talking about making better *placement* >> decisions using epbf, it would be a different story. > > From placement decisions, do you mean placement between memory > tiers/nodes or something else? More like: which size to place, but it could be extended to other policies, maybe. Assume we have a page fault and have to decide which size to place. For a process that we really want to use THPs (VM_HUEPAGE?), we could use the largest free folio possible. For a process that we don't want to spend valuable THPs on (VM_HUEPAGE not set?), we could use the smallest free folio possible. Such a possibly might be encoded in an ebpf program I assume. The hints (prioritize regions/processes, deprioritize regions/processes), such as VM_HUGEPAGE, inputs into such a program. > >> >> 2) prctl(): the unloved child, and I can understand why. Maybe now is >> the right time to stop adding new MM things that feel weird in there. >> Maybe we should already have done that with the KSM toggle (guess who >> was involved in that ;) ). > > At the moment systemd is the user I know of and I think it would very > easy to migrate it to whatever new thing we decide here. Agreed. > >> >> 3) process_madvise(): I think it's an interesting extension, but >> probably we should just have something that applies to the whole >> address space naturally. At least my take for now. >> >> 4) new syscall: worth exploring how it would look. I'm especially >> interested in flag options (e.g., SET_DEFAULT_EXEC) and how we could >> make them only apply to selected controls. > > Were there any previous discussion on SET_DEFAULT_EXEC? First time I am > hearing about it. I think it evolved in the discussion here from PMADV_SET_FORK_EXEC_DEFAULT. > > Overall I agree with your assessment and thus I was requesting to at > least discuss the new syscall option as well. Yes. I am still not sure if having a new "process" [1] mode would be a reasonable alternative to setting the VM_HUGEPAGE/VM_NOHUGEPAGE default. Assuming we would have a "process" mode, we could (a) set the policy per-process using the new syscall we discuss here, and options to (B) set the policy to use for the exec child and (c) maybe an option to seal the policy (depending on who is allowed to set the policy in the first place). On the + side, we don't lose hints/instructions from the app (VM_HUGEPAGE/VM_NOHUGEPAGE) when changing the policy on an already running process. The problem I see with the "process" policy is that people might want different "default" policies for processes, which means that we will have to add yet another toggle. How I hate THP toggles. :) [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/CALOAHbB-KQ4+z-Lupv7RcxArfjX7qtWcrboMDdT4LdpoTXOMyw@mail.gmail.com/ -- Cheers, David / dhildenb