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[66.90.144.107]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w12-20020a056830410c00b006619295af60sm15421ott.70.2022.11.29.15.28.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 29 Nov 2022 15:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (nullmailer pid 492448 invoked by uid 1000); Tue, 29 Nov 2022 23:28:37 -0000 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 17:28:37 -0600 From: Rob Herring To: Hector Martin Cc: Krzysztof Kozlowski , Ulf Hansson , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Viresh Kumar , Matthias Brugger , Sven Peter , Alyssa Rosenzweig , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Stephen Boyd , Marc Zyngier , Mark Kettenis , asahi@lists.linux.dev, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Linus Torvalds Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 2/4] dt-bindings: cpufreq: apple,soc-cpufreq: Add binding for Apple SoC cpufreq Message-ID: <20221129232837.GA432535-robh@kernel.org> References: <20221128142912.16022-1-marcan@marcan.st> <20221128142912.16022-3-marcan@marcan.st> <41c6882a-bff0-378c-edd3-160b54be7c1d@marcan.st> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20221129_152841_524898_A04CD921 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 29.48 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:17:08AM +0900, Hector Martin wrote: > On 29/11/2022 23.34, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: > > On 29/11/2022 15:00, Hector Martin wrote: > >> On 29/11/2022 20.36, Ulf Hansson wrote: > >> Please, let's introspect about this for a moment. Something is deeply > >> broken if people with 25+ years being an arch maintainer can't get a > > > > If arch maintainer sends patches which does not build (make > > dt_binding_check), then what do you exactly expect? Accept them just > > because it is 25+ years of experience or a maintainer? So we have > > difference processes - for beginners code should compile. For > > experienced people, it does not have to build because otherwise they > > will get discouraged? > > I expect the process to not be so confusing and frustrating that a > maintainer with 25+ years of experience gives up. That the bindings > didn't pass the checker is besides the point. People say the Linux > kernel community is hostile to newbies. This issue proves it's not just > newbies, the process is failing even experienced folks. IME, a lack of response is a bigger issue and more frustrating. > On that specific issue, any other functional open source project would > have the binding checks be a CI bot, with a friendly message telling you > what to do to fix it, and it would re-run when you push to the PR again, > which is a *much* lower friction action than sending a whole new patch > series out for review via email (if you don't agree with this, then > you're not the average contributor - the Linux kernel is by far the > scariest major open source project to contribute to, and I think most > people would agree with me on that). We could probably add a $ci_provider job description to do that. In fact, I did try that once[1]. The challenge would be what to run if there's multiple maintainers doing something. Otherwise, it's a maintainer creating their own thing which we have too much of already. > I know Rob has a DT checker bot, but its error output is practically > line noise, I'm not sure what to do there beyond the 'hint' lines I've added. It's kind of how json-schema functions unfortunately. I think it stems from each schema keyword being evaluated independently. > and the error email doesn't even mention the > DT_SCHEMA_FILES= make option (which is the only way to make the check > not take *forever* to run). That's easy enough to add and a specific suggestion I can act on. However, note that the full thing still has to be run because any schema change can affect any other example (which is a large part of why it's slow). > Absolutely nobody is going to look at those > emails without already knowing the intricacies of DT bindings and the > checker and not find them incredibly frustrating. I don't know how else to enable someone not understanding DT bindings nor json-schema to write DT bindings. I get that json-schema is not something kernel developers typically know already. Trust me, the alternatives proposed for a schema over the years would have been much worse. Rob [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/20181003222715.28667-1-robh@kernel.org/ _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel