From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C2EDCD98F3 for ; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:40:36 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post: List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: Date:References:Subject:To:From:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: List-Owner; bh=1T8btINd4pBK+3MkMTsaMcjyxLTkC8ZLWK8a86DZAnc=; b=HCozxAdhQ3KMr1 XQ1MTdvuw3w05n1exw9EJeUlpxgAVoHYPZPUBsc0GZx1EEcsgCDZTq/3myt2FFyt9ErrvD20aSrYJ qK8yy1AeQ5XAH/ugzxFCSHxDXK99Sjfll7KKO7HYVBwYfWU/M8iYROwJ4Ac8oxbSTjmp1XNlj5u8U v9LwIB4XcRKnskIKuyRHkRIT/A5Flbrj154QCu0hWoZOxBDQSzqPq/zic0Km/nrf2Z2a7tOXx97HZ YeH0y/0nrSPJAXczfWRJZ2JwcGXPDDulIhEemAonksLh48t2hJ5sjPMEC6BiKvz+4HmVYb2pEZC3u cjG76a5t3L2Yg6x8QPMg==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=bombadil.infradead.org) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.96 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1qqRx8-00ErNg-2I; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:40:14 +0000 Received: from sin.source.kernel.org ([2604:1380:40e1:4800::1]) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.96 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1qqRx5-00ErLy-0q for linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:40:13 +0000 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (transwarp.subspace.kernel.org [100.75.92.58]) by sin.source.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E417CE0E3B; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:40:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0FB1C433C7; Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:40:02 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1697002805; bh=DE1MlIKU2Xk7lH0G8Xq5HukEEdK1V6Gk4yGPDoDVpQE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=p1pIod+n4h+gn9IOziKd9fPHR/Hz6LvC0MkgdBsmUIOa0DgpxNrW2hlhSEouwl7LD 90NSLFQL9kWo0xvaHke9RtnXtAY5mgt6r/tIfrtlOU9UVrdBxxecGkRDnbws6DGAdx Bg9lw9wgvVPQ13YMxpZU4iF9Jw31bT1XTGkwESQRIykT44BN0uPamL+wIQZAqxdHMT e0N3qkT1uVVjSN9FeKfHdAe3ja11vBK89iOdRvNPHcInG27zRi64Fz+ohxALkdXPJu yxPiU4pVIBt9NJL73jg+ULTkL18XfmsS6SV0Yz5BJ+IX0NjDK+aggvRo2OeuXRA9uZ d5l9nEK7P3hNQ== From: Kalle Valo To: Greg Kroah-Hartman Subject: Re: [PATCH] [RFC] wireless: move obsolete drivers to staging References: <20231010155444.858483-1-arnd@kernel.org> <2023101051-unmasked-cleaver-79b3@gregkh> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 08:40:00 +0300 In-Reply-To: <2023101051-unmasked-cleaver-79b3@gregkh> (Greg Kroah-Hartman's message of "Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:08:03 +0200") Message-ID: <87y1g94szz.fsf@kernel.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20231010_224011_666182_AC89CB7F X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 34.81 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Arnd Bergmann , Alexandre Belloni , Arnd Bergmann , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-staging@lists.linux.dev, linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, Claudiu Beznea , Pavel Machek , Jakub Kicinski , "David S. Miller" , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Larry Finger Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org Greg Kroah-Hartman writes: > On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 05:27:29PM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > >> From: Arnd Bergmann >> >> While looking at the old drivers using the obsolete .ndo_do_ioctl() >> callback, I found a number of network drivers that are especially >> obsolete, in particular for 802.11b (11Mbit/s) or even older wireless >> networks, using non-busmaster ISA/PCMCIA style bus interfaces, and using >> the legacy wireless extension ioctls rather than the netlink interfaces >> that were meant to replace them in 2007. All of these drivers are >> obsolete or orphaned. >> >> We had previously discussed this topic, but nobody ever moved the >> files, so I now went through the list to my best knowledge. These >> are the drivers that I would classify as "probably unused" by now: >> >> - Atmel at76c502/at76c504/at76c506 is a PIO-only (PCMCIA, mini-PCI >> and Cardbus) 802.11b driver with incomplete CFG80211 support. >> The related at76c50x USB driver uses MAC80211 and remains. >> >> - Cisco Aironet is an 802.11b PCMCIA and mini-PCI with limited support >> for Cardbus DMA and for CFG80211. >> >> - HostAP is an ISA/PCMCIA style 802.11b driver supporting only >> wireless extensions, and some custom ioctls (already removed). >> Some devices include a legacy PCI bridge but no DMA. >> >> - Aviator/Raytheon is an early PCMCIA driver, apparently predating >> 802.11b and only supporting wireless extensions. >> >> - Planet WL3501 is another PCMCIA driver for pre-802.11b interfaces >> (2Mbit/s) with incomplete CFG80211 support >> >> - Zydas zd1201 is a USB 802.11b driver with limited support for >> CFG80211. >> >> - Orinoco is a PIO-only ISA/PCMCIA 802.11b device with extra bus >> interface connections for PCI/Cardbus/mini-PCI and a few >> pre-2002 Apple PowerMac variants. It supports both >> wireless extensions and CFG80211, but I could not tell if >> it requires using both. >> >> - Wireless RNDIS USB is a new-style CFG80211 driver for 802.11b >> and 802.11g USB hardware from around 2004 to 2006. This makes it >> more modern than any of the others, but Kalle already classified >> it as "legacy" in commit 298e50ad8eb8f ("wifi: move raycs, wl3501 >> and rndis_wlan to legacy directory"), so it stays with ray_cs and >> wl3501_cs. >> >> There are a few other drivers that are similar to these but that are >> more likely to still be needed, and are not moved here: >> >> - Intel ipw2x00 is a PCI bus-master device for 802.11a/b/g that was >> popular in "Centrino" branded laptops from 2003 to 2005, but it >> still requires wireless extensions. >> >> - Marvell Libertas is an 802.11a/b/g device with a number of bus >> interfaces (USB, SDIO, SPI, PCMCIA) and incomplete CFG80211 >> support. This one was used in the OLPC XO laptop and some other >> embedded devices that are still supported. >> >> - Some broadcom b43xx devices use the SSB bus that can be abstracted >> through PCMCIA. All of them use CFG80211. >> >> - The Sony Playstation 3 "gelic" ethernet driver contains a bridge >> and an 802.11b/g client chip that is controlled through a hypervisor >> interface from the OS, and it uses wireless extensions in the kernel >> driver. >> >> Link: https://lore.kernel.org/all/87imaeg4ar.fsf@codeaurora.org/ >> Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann > > Stuff in drivers/staging/ is to get code _into_ the main portion of the > kernel tree, not out. If these aren't being used, let's just drop them > entirely. > > What is the need to have them move to staging, only to have me delete > them in the next release after that (or after that?) Why delay and why > not just remove them now? We (the wireless folks) have been talking about dropping legacy drivers on and off for several years now. The problem is that we don't know which of them work and which not, for example IIRC someone reported recently that wl3501 still works. Personally I would be extremly happy to remove all the ancient drivers as that reduces the amount of code for us to maintain but is that the right thing to do for the users? I don't have an answer to that, comments very welcome. I have been also wondering if I should add warnings like this to every ancient driver to see if there are any users left: "wl3501 wireless driver will be removed in 2024. If the driver still works and you are using it send a report NOW to linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org to avoid the removal." But with the long release cycles the kernel and distros have I doubt waiting for a year is enough, it should be more like three years. -- https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-wireless/list/ https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/developers/documentation/submittingpatches _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel