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Wed, 13 Jan 2021 04:56:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:56:17 +0900 From: William Breathitt Gray To: Linus Walleij Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Message-ID: References: <20210109055645.GA2009@1wt.eu> <6fb7e3f5035d44fab9801001f1811b59@AcuMS.aculab.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210113_075635_722788_0D57941E X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 28.89 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Baruch Siach , Geert Uytterhoeven , Neil Armstrong , Viresh Kumar , Daniel Tang , Jamie Iles , Krzysztof Adamski , Alexander Shiyan , Michael Ellerman , Yoshinori Sato , Russell King - ARM Linux , Wei Xu , Oleksij Rempel , Andy Shevchenko , Alex Elder , Marc Gonzalez , Hans Ulli Kroll , Uwe =?utf-8?Q?Kleine-K=C3=B6nig?= , Steven Rostedt , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Lubomir Rintel , Koen Vandeputte , Linux ARM , Barry Song , Arnd Bergmann , Thomas Bogendoerfer , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Jonas Jensen , Hartley Sweeten , David Laight , Mark Salter , Shawn Guo , Willy Tarreau Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8087937499306188830==" Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org --===============8087937499306188830== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="KyX+UA7rekpD9BtP" Content-Disposition: inline --KyX+UA7rekpD9BtP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 09:30:28PM +0900, William Breathitt Gray wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:02:20PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:27 AM Andy Shevchenko > > wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM David Laight wrote: > >=20 > > > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpu= id > > > > and (IIRC) rdtsc. > > > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suita= ble > > > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses. > > > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a > > > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues. > > > > > > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs > > > (486 core + few i586 features). > > > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use. > >=20 > > What is the status of PC/104? > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC/104 > >=20 > > I have three GPIO drivers for PC/104 machines and these are for > > embedded industrial usecases. I am curious about what CPUs these > > beasts run on in practice? Are they getting upgraded? > >=20 > > Paging William, I think he work on these daily. > >=20 > > Yours, > > Linus Walleij >=20 > I don't really see pure PC/104 systems around that much anymore, but > there are still plenty of PC/104-Plus and PCI-104 setups in production. > The PC/104 form factor is popular because users can stack PC/104 > compatible modules easily together to build custom solutions; see for > example the diagram on this page: > https://www.advantech.com/embedded-boards-design-in-services/embedded-sin= gle-board-computers/pc104-and-pc104-plus >=20 > As far as the CPU is concerned, these systems are typically for > industrial applications and run CPUs geared for low-power consumption -- > you're looking at processor series such as the Intel Bay trail > (https://www.winsystems.com/product/epx-c414/), DMP Vortex86DX > (http://www.diamondsystems.com/products/helios), and AMD G-series > (https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2jkltu/pcm-3356/mod_0706f4d5-2e44-4= 73a-a7b7-53bd1a7bd1a0). >=20 > TLDR; PC/104 is certainly a niche market focused on industrial > consumers, but the form factor and devices are still popular and > upgraded reguarly. >=20 > William Breathitt Gray Oops, I misread what you were asking. If you mean, are the systems that run these PC/104 stackable devices running older processor series, then yes that's typically the case. It seems like newer systems have migrated to the PCIe/104 form factor, which although having the same dimensions as the PC/104 form factor lacks compatibility with PC/104 devices; for example: https://www.rtd.com/i7/default.htm I suspect the general trend in the market is moving towards these PCIe modules because PC/104 ISA communication just lacks the bandwidth necessary for many applications. 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