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Thu, 22 Feb 2024 00:40:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.20] ([178.197.222.116]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id vw15-20020a170907a70f00b00a3f3a5d6752sm1364286ejc.51.2024.02.22.00.40.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 22 Feb 2024 00:40:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 09:40:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] arm64: defconfig: Enable zram, xfs and loading compressed FW support Content-Language: en-US To: Javier Martinez Canillas , Maxime Ripard Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Enric Balletbo i Serra , Erico Nunes , Brian Masney , Arnd Bergmann , Bjorn Andersson , Catalin Marinas , Geert Uytterhoeven , Konrad Dybcio , Marek Szyprowski , Neil Armstrong , Will Deacon , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org References: <20240221141350.3740488-1-javierm@redhat.com> <1f28256c-e436-4add-aa67-2cfb2248b220@linaro.org> <6scz7iti3tzzrd4ph3gnuc2pvkcbtuuicgfgujh3pa3c34kdkt@bhfa4xbxeu7t> <9083c414-62f2-4bff-93ee-13f8ff60eb34@linaro.org> <874je1ipb4.fsf@minerva.mail-host-address-is-not-set> From: Krzysztof Kozlowski Autocrypt: addr=krzysztof.kozlowski@linaro.org; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On 21/02/2024 20:34, Javier Martinez Canillas wrote: > Krzysztof Kozlowski writes: > >> On 21/02/2024 16:24, Maxime Ripard wrote: >>> On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 04:10:12PM +0100, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: >>>> On 21/02/2024 15:48, Maxime Ripard wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 03:22:38PM +0100, Krzysztof Kozlowski wrote: >>>>>> On 21/02/2024 15:13, Javier Martinez Canillas wrote: >>>>>>> These options are needed by some Linux distributions (e.g: Fedora), so >>>>>> >>>>>> How ZRAM is needed? Why Fedora cannot boot without it? Debian, which I >>>>>> use on my arm64 boards, does not have any problem. >>>>> >>>>> Is it relevant in any way? >>>> >>>> Yes, because it is justification why we are doing it. Each commit is >>>> supposed to explain "why" and the explanation here is not enough. >>> >>> There's a why though: it makes Fedora boot. It might not be enough for >> >> I want to know to understand. Maybe it is not really neeed but "nice to >> have"? People write various vague statements... >> > > I usually try hard not to be vague. There was a why, it wasn't enough for > you and that's fair. > > But I think the crux of the why was explained: I don't want to remember > each time that need to troubleshoot something, what options are missing > in order to boot Fedora. > >>> you, but that's a different story. So, if it's not enough, please state >>> exactly what you expect from that patch description so Javier can >>> provide it. >> >> Any explanation what ZRAM is necessary for Fedora to boot. >> > > I mentioned already in another email, Fedora is enabling the systemd > zram-generator and not having a /dev/zram0 slows down the boot to the > point of being unusable. One could disable that service but then is yet That one sentence would be enough for me. > another thing to remember when trying to boot an upstream kernel built. > > Could had added all this information to the commit message but I thought > that it would be too much... > >>> >>>>> I'm sure Debian can boot without MEMORY_HOTREMOVE, or BRIDGE, or >>>>> NUMA_BALANCING, or BPF_JIT, or NFS_FS, yet all of them are enabled. Let >>>>> me know if you want hundreds more examples. >>>> >>>> So if there is any bug, you are allowed to add new one? If there is any >>>> silly option, you are allowed to add new one? >>>> >>>> Feel free to propose dropping of any irrelevant options. >>> >>> No, of course you aren't. My point is that Fedora is a distro just as >>> established and legitimate as Debian is. And apparently "it makes Debian >>> works" is a reasonable argument, since, well, it does. >>> >>> If making Fedora boot with that defconfig is not a legitimate goal, >> >> It is, but I asked for more information. >> >>> please state why, and document it (with the ack of all the maintainers >>> involved with that defconfig, obviously) so we don't have the same >>> argument over and over again. >>> >>>>>> I kind of repeat comments from similar patch earlier: >>>>>> https://lore.kernel.org/all/fe1e74a2-e933-7cd9-f740-86d871076191@linaro.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> About XFS: I don't think it is needed to boot anything. >>>>> >>>>> Just like 9P_FS, NFS or UBIFS. >>>> >>>> NFS is often used on targets, e.g. my board farm, but also by other people. >>>> >>>> UBIFS was added recently because one device was using it - you needed >>>> it. 9P_FS looks unnecessary. >>> >>> So all we need is one person or use case to require it? Sounds like >>> we've checked that mark here. >> >> Use case of given type. I would disagree for SMBFS because we have NFS. >> UBIFS is hardware requirement. 9P_FS seems like virtio case. >> > > So that means that for aarch64, some filesystems have more precedence over > others? It's OK to have ext4 or btrfs but no xfs? Honestly it seems quite > arbitrary and subjective for me. Yes, subjective, but to be honest: I would drop Btrfs. I was thinking about it, but since Arnd agrees on XFS I won't fight that battle. > >>> >>>>>> This is a defconfig, not a distro config. Please don't make it distro. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will gladly support things needed by systemd or equivalent, but not >>>>>> unusual filesystems needed by distro. >>>>> >>>>> It's a defconfig. It's whatever people want it to be. Or we need to come >>>>> up with a clearly defined set of rules of what is acceptable in that >>>>> defconfig or not, and prune every option that isn't. >>>> >>>> So that's the rule I am commenting from time to time. defconfigs are not >>>> distro configs. These are reference hardware configs and debugging >>>> configs. >>> >>> Supporting a board farm is hardly either. >> >> Debugging purpose, but I agree we can drop it. >> >>> >>> And again, I've never heard of such rule for that defconfig in my ~10y >>> as an ARM platform maintainer. But what do I know, right? >>> >>>> I was working in distro so trust me - they do stuff differently >>>> and they not need XFS in our defconfig for anything. >>> > > Which distro? Every one uses a different filesystem. SUSE uses btrfs, > Debian I think ext4, Fedora uses xfs and so on. It's OK if the policy > is that the defconfig should only be compatible with Debian, but then > should be written somewhere. Hm, don't all these distros support choosing the filesystem? I did not propose Ext4 because Debian is more important or something, but because we need to choose something and it is kind of default for many people. > >>> Sure, but you're not just arguing for XFS there. >> >> I raised need for "why" for ZRAM and un-necessity of XFS. What's wrong >> with that? I should send separate emails or what? >> >>> >>> What I really don't get is this: this makes the life of people easier. >> >> Again: this makes my life harder. I cannot be buying new machines every >> two years to be able to compile defconfig while testing/working. >> > > And not having it enabled makes my life (and other fedora users) harder > because xfs needs to be enabled every time that an upstream kernel needs > to be tested. We can here disagree that we might have a bit different needs... I just provided argument why I object. > >>> >>> Being able to test an upstream kernel quickly when you have a bug in a >>> downstream distro is super valuable for any distro developper. And on >> >> That's a distro need, not relevant. And even if it was, then your >> argument would be "let's enable everything distro has!". This is not a >> distro kernel. >> > > It's not a distro need in my opinion but an upstream kernel developer > need. If I have had chosen xfs for personal preference, would that be > any different? > >> >>> the long run, if we don't make the switch from a kernel distro to a >>> mainline kernel relatively easy, we're the ones that will lose out. >>> Because people just won't bother, or be frustrated and thus super >>> reluctant to do that work. >>> >>> That's the part I don't get. Why do we want to make the life of people >>> harder. This patch has never been about making the defconfig the main >> >> Because it makes my life harder and I don't see benefits. Quoting Arnd: >> "Unfortunately this will increase build time noticeably, but" >> > > The benefit is for developers who use Fedora to be able to boot their > kernels built using defconfig, just like developers using other distros > can now. We already have ext4 and btrfs, but somehow xfs is not OK. I would drop btrfs :) Best regards, Krzysztof _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel