which assembler to use : newbie query

which assembler to use : newbie query

[Only OpenSource]

Hello all

I want to learn assembly language properly so that I can understand
FreeBSD assembly code.
Which assembler do I need to use : as or nasm.

Please help me out.

-- 
oo@@oo

Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[leslie.polzer]

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On Mon, Jul 31, 2006 at 08:42:59PM +0530, Only OpenSource wrote:

> I want to learn assembly language properly so that I can understand
> FreeBSD assembly code. Which assembler do I need to use : as or nasm.
Use nasm.  as was never meant to be anything except an assembler into
which converted C code could be fed.

  Leslie

-- 
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x52D70289
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Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[Ricardo Nabinger Sanchez]

Quoting  "Only OpenSource" <onlyopensource@gmail.com>
Sent on  Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:42:59 +0530

> I want to learn assembly language properly so that I can understand
> FreeBSD assembly code.
> Which assembler do I need to use : as or nasm.

As Leslie said, use nasm.  I do some asm stuff on FreeBSD from time to
time, and nasm is pretty fine.

-- 
Ricardo Nabinger Sanchez     <rnsanchez@{gmail.com,wait4.org}>
Powered by FreeBSD

  "Left to themselves, things tend to go from bad to worse."

Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[Robert Plantz]

Only OpenSource wrote:
> Hello all
>
> I want to learn assembly language properly so that I can understand
> FreeBSD assembly code.
> Which assembler do I need to use : as or nasm.
>
> Please help me out.
If you wish to understand code that others have written, I recommend
learning the assembler they have used. (I don't have my FreeBSD running
right now, so I don't know what is commonly used.)

If you wish to understand the assembly "underneath" the C code, I
think as is better. You can use the -S switch in gcc to see what it
generates. This is especially useful if you use embedded assembly
code. Also, at least in Linux, you can use the objdump program to
disassemble object files, and it does in in as syntax.

My opinions are based on my writing a lot of assembly language
in industry during the 70s and 80s. I also taught the subject at
the university level from 1983 - 2004. This last gig prompted me
to write a 400-page textbook on the subject. The book is based on
the premise that one should almost never write in assembly language,
but it's important to understand how computers work at that level.
Most of my examples are written in C, then show what gcc generates
(using -S), then how it would be written in assembly language (at
least, my way of writing it). I use as in my book.

Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[Hendrik Visage]

On 7/31/06, Robert Plantz <plantz@sonoma.edu> wrote:

> My opinions are based on my writing a lot of assembly language
> in industry during the 70s and 80s. I also taught the subject at
> the university level from 1983 - 2004. This last gig prompted me
> to write a 400-page textbook on the subject. The book is based on
> the premise that one should almost never write in assembly language,
> but it's important to understand how computers work at that level.


Book's name, number and IQ^H^HURL or ISBN number?

-- 
Hendrik Visage

Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[leslie.polzer]

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On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 09:18:16AM +0200, Hendrik Visage wrote:

> On 7/31/06, Robert Plantz <plantz@sonoma.edu> wrote:
>
> >My opinions are based on my writing a lot of assembly language in
> >industry during the 70s and 80s. I also taught the subject at the
> >university level from 1983 - 2004. This last gig prompted me to write
> >a 400-page textbook on the subject. The book is based on the premise
> >that one should almost never write in assembly language, but it's
> >important to understand how computers work at that level.
>
>
> Book's name, number and IQ^H^HURL or ISBN number?
Would this by any chance be "Programming from the ground up"?

  Leslie

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Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[Frank Kotler]

Only OpenSource wrote:
> Hello all
> 
> I want to learn assembly language properly so that I can understand
> FreeBSD assembly code.
> Which assembler do I need to use : as or nasm.

Yes. :)

Here's something I just posted elsewhere - not really the same question, 
but maybe close enough...

--------------------------

MQ wrote:

 > Noway2 wrote:
 >
 >> Sam wrote:
 >>
 >>>> Can anyone recommend a tutorial on NASM syntax (other than Dr. Paul
 >>>> Carter's ?) Or any assembler book using NASM syntax? I'm shifting from
 >>>> gas to nasm -- that's why.
 >>>>
 >>>> thanks.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> I'm new to assembler and thought I'd learn (g)as since GNU puts out a
 >>> ton of other development tools. Why are you shifting to NASM? Since I'm
 >>> fresh into learning assembler I might want to make the shift also...
 >>
 >>
 >> The fact that the gnu assembler syntax is awful probably has a lot to
 >> do with it.
 >
 >
 >
 > yes, gas uses AT&T syntax, which is a pile of steaming manure...


Recent versions of Gas, perhaps not available for djgpp(?), have an 
".intel_syntax noprefix" switch, which produces *less* steam.

It wasn't added for gcc's convenience, so the argument that Gas is "only 
fit for gcc's output" is no longer true. (although it *was*, at one time!!!)

I'm one of Nasm's biggest fans, and I don't think you'll go far wrong 
choosing Nasm... *but*... Nasm doesn't have 64-bit support, and isn't 
likely to, soon. Gas (and Fasm and Yasm) do. This might influence your 
decision!

Why not become "bilingual"? I can't *write* anything in Gas without 
making a lot of syntax errors, but I can read it and figure out what 
it's doing... usually. Pretty handy to have *some* familiarity with 
both! (Fasm and Yasm are similar enough to Nasm that they almost come 
free... couple subtleties...)

As far as a tutorial... other than Dr. Carter's... Maybe:

http://docs.cs.up.ac.za/programming/asm/derick_tut/

http://www.leto.net/writing/nasm.txt

http://www.rawcode.org/

This last is brand new - mostly in Italian (except for the code, which 
is in Intel), but being translated to English "as we speak" - and the 
guy is looking for help!

Seems to me there are a couple more - I can't find links right now - 
none of 'em as extensive as Dr. Carter's...

http://www.linuxassembly.org

is a good place to look for info and links...

Best,
Frank

P.S. For BSD, add the BSD Developer's Handbook, chapter... 17, I think? 
You can find it. *Very* good!

Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[Robert Plantz]

leslie.polzer@gmx.net wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 09:18:16AM +0200, Hendrik Visage wrote:
>
>   
>> Book's name, number and IQ^H^HURL or ISBN number?
>>     
> Would this by any chance be "Programming from the ground up"?
>   
No. That's a pretty good book. As the title suggests, the
presentation is "bottom up." For example, he does not get
into interfacing with C libraries until nearly half way through
the book.

In my book, I start with C code. For example, I use C programs
to illustrate binary number storage formats, etc. So I take a
more "top down" approach. My thought was to start with what
the student already knows -- programming in a higher-level
language. In addition, my book is intended for classroom use,
so I have quite a few exercises.

I have not published my book on the open market yet. I was
hoping to find a publisher, but assembly language does
not have a very big market. So far, we have had the book
printed on campus for our students.

Meanwhile, publish on demand places have come to be.
I am cleaning up some technical issues so that I can
publish my book through www.lulu.com. Hopefully, that
can happen within the next couple of months. I also need
to decide how to price it.

Re: which assembler to use : newbie query

[Maciej Hrebien]

> leslie.polzer@gmx.net wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 01, 2006 at 09:18:16AM +0200, Hendrik Visage wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Book's name, number and IQ^H^HURL or ISBN number?
> >>     
> > Would this by any chance be "Programming from the ground up"?
> >   

[...]

> Meanwhile, publish on demand places have come to be.
> I am cleaning up some technical issues so that I can
> publish my book through www.lulu.com. Hopefully, that
> can happen within the next couple of months. I also need
> to decide how to price it.

Do some uops reduction and make it as cheap as possible ;)

Regards,
Maciej Hrebien


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