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Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:12:08 +0000 Received: from CH2PR10MB4312.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fd5e:682a:f1ac:d0a2]) by CH2PR10MB4312.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fd5e:682a:f1ac:d0a2%5]) with mapi id 15.20.8093.014; Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:12:07 +0000 Message-ID: <5a16f8c2-d868-48cf-96c8-a0d99e440ca5@oracle.com> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 13:11:53 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 5/6] md/raid1: Handle bio_split() errors To: Geoff Back , Yu Kuai , axboe@kernel.dk, hch@lst.de Cc: linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-raid@vger.kernel.org, martin.petersen@oracle.com, "yangerkun@huawei.com" , "yukuai (C)" References: <20240919092302.3094725-1-john.g.garry@oracle.com> <20240919092302.3094725-6-john.g.garry@oracle.com> <0161641d-daef-4804-b4d2-4a83f625bc77@oracle.com> <44806c6f-d96a-498c-83e1-e3853ee79d5a@oracle.com> <59a46919-6c6d-46cb-1fe4-5ded849617e1@huaweicloud.com> <6148a744-e62c-45f6-b273-772aaf51a2df@oracle.com> <0cf7985e-e7ac-4503-827b-eb2a0fd6ef67@oracle.com> <098e65e7-53fb-4bf1-b973-2bda425139ae@demonlair.co.uk> Content-Language: en-US From: John Garry Organization: Oracle Corporation In-Reply-To: <098e65e7-53fb-4bf1-b973-2bda425139ae@demonlair.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; 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If you want to enable atomic write >>> for raid1/raid10, you must add a new branch to handle badblocks now, >>> otherwise, as long as one copy contain any badblocks, atomic write will >>> fail while theoretically I think it can work. >> Can you please expand on what you mean by this last sentence, "I think >> it can work". >> >> Indeed, IMO, chance of encountering a device with BBs and supporting >> atomic writes is low, so no need to try to make it work (if it were >> possible) - I think that we just report EIO. >> >> Thanks, >> John >> >> > Hi all, > > Looking at this from a different angle: what does the bad blocks system > actually gain in modern environments?  All the physical storage devices > I can think of (including all HDDs and SSDs, NVME or otherwise) have > internal mechanisms for remapping faulty blocks, and therefore > unrecoverable blocks don't become visible to the Linux kernel level > until after the physical storage device has exhausted its internal > supply of replacement blocks.  At that point the physical device is > already catastrophically failing, and in the case of SSDs will likely > have already transitioned to a read-only state.  Using bad-blocks at the > kernel level to map around additional faulty blocks at this point does > not seem to me to have any benefit, and the device is unlikely to be > even marginally usable for any useful length of time at that point anyway. > > It seems to me that the bad-blocks capability is a legacy from the > distant past when HDDs did not do internal block remapping and hence the > kernel could usefully keep a disk usable by mapping out individual > blocks in software. > If this is the case and there isn't some other way that bad-blocks is > still beneficial, might it be better to drop it altogether rather than > implementing complex code to work around its effects? I am not proposing to drop it. That is another topic. I am just saying that I don't expect BBs for a device which supports atomic writes. As such, the solution for that case is simple - for an atomic write which cover BBs in any rdev, then just error that write. > > Of course I'm happy to be corrected if there's still a real benefit to > having it, just because I can't see one doesn't mean there isn't one. I don't know if there is really a BB support benefit for modern devices at all. Thanks, John