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[96.60.249.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-765bb916ac8sm33003997b3.3.2025.09.29.16.55.50 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 29 Sep 2025 16:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <693793db-3431-48b3-8913-aadb86bc4ebc@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2025 19:55:22 -0400 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Can the output of FIEMAP on BTRFS be used to check if a file and its reflink copy might have diverged? To: Christoph Hellwig , Chris Laprise Cc: linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org References: <38f350b0-9a71-4627-9d36-57bf2f85e67a@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------0oxHhOz6VmcgDqPoZwqaP9cO" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------0oxHhOz6VmcgDqPoZwqaP9cO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------kxgW6CkpREboDUfMAHdSW7UC"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Christoph Hellwig , Chris Laprise Cc: linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org Message-ID: <693793db-3431-48b3-8913-aadb86bc4ebc@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Can the output of FIEMAP on BTRFS be used to check if a file and its reflink copy might have diverged? References: <38f350b0-9a71-4627-9d36-57bf2f85e67a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: --------------kxgW6CkpREboDUfMAHdSW7UC Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------wWG10NJT7xT3wMuxvh4JlfTX" --------------wWG10NJT7xT3wMuxvh4JlfTX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9/29/25 04:49, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 11:25:48PM +0000, Chris Laprise wrote: >> The overall procedure is: >> >> 1. Get subvolume's Generation ID >> >> 2. Read FIEMAP data >> >> 3. Get subvolume's Generation ID again >> >> 4. Check that the Generation ID hasn't changed: No match skips the fil= e or >> raises an error >=20 > I'll let the btrfs developers answer this as it's clearly not about > XFS. >=20 >> I should clarify that in this application we are not interested in phy= sical >> mappings, but the logical representation of data. >=20 > And that's not what FIEMAP provides. Can two extents have the same offset on disk but different logical conten= ts? For XFS that seems impossible unless a realtime device is involved, which= is not the case here. >> It is also understood that >> for some other applications FIEMAP would not be sufficient; however Wy= ng is >> not fetching or manipulating data at a low level. Also, there is a la= ck of >> accuracy in the form of false positives, where unchanged data show up = as >> deltas, but this only results in longer processing time not data corru= ption; >> false negatives are the only thing that must be avoided. >=20 > I think what you want/need is a way to look at the delta between two > reflinked files. At least for XFS (and I'm pretty sure for btrfs as > well) the low-level data structures could provide this, but building an= > actually safe interface to that is unfortunately hard. Is it easier if one requires the filesystem to be read-only? Taking a device-mapper snapshot (thin or CoW) before the backup is not too onerous= , at least if the filesystem is already on an LVM LV. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------wWG10NJT7xT3wMuxvh4JlfTX Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49y B+l2nipdaq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYf bWpr/si88QKgyGSVZ7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/ UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnTDlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7M MPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPxwcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9H zx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvU T1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl5FMWo8TCniHynNXs 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Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEopQtqVJW1aeuo9/sszaHOrMp8lMFAmjbHGsACgkQszaHOrMp 8lPCIw//Qvjie8KmXI3UkLLw/kQR4Uo4afkUUpHVSLFkLGgRldiSZGl1rV64/LMQ YHJpqbdgndCUTgFSoRMyL/BsiYoybvBO5ebwFSyhRSGVozpFHu3HYTE9yv77EVk0 wbH+LQy3WQWL4OabSvvBDMaeNgw1ATeSDVo6mFhlc9VNs1o5vkAFAi5l6Uh6BRWx Kc8fcU1JvdAnW3araQ3CfMJxgrxVXArB/xK+H3H0LHZBlpL2oijq2RyH719y93sO Zuj4hS3qyExAYURyk4ZdrZ68nZfUhfBbFID4676gvcr75J3sutjabZJZqNaNzRpa +1qNIoRJiZOd+GbfuJH8m3CxOn1mDAWwlcG2RD5tikiFQ9G5y9uUqP1shxprmmgG RNYsivk4VP/71jc+KjbHhjsfrxMx8NDtbdOMk9Ub2wvwxwW/2GhV/cQv/2sH8Eei yVa6vapsycgxmGokcAqhte20xN5y9TF+k3qxCb5NmPbD5GB1lEBNjpTeRAcQE/1m 7fZHlJf9SySXUEO0Rg5/X9XT4H7rHzmKlI53Xy3t8oPdME6ND68O/tHhLnBwAZX+ 18qAY2ADm5g68n1k95FLHIcmAmJntl6VDikaCW+bub2nb4k0m5HJ448UoERlyUro hCVdMUrg2rKuKGfvqKb0PrXY8J6Q4iIKvZznVKdIzS0ORLhtuVg= =ZKA5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------0oxHhOz6VmcgDqPoZwqaP9cO--