Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

Here is a preview of the survey.

I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn't fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.

Please comment!

Click on the following link to test this survey:
http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb

--------------------------
Powered by SurveyGizmo - http://www.surveygizmo.com
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Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[David Pottage]

On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote:
> Here is a preview of the survey.
>
> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn't fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.
>
> Please comment!
>
> Click on the following link to test this survey:
> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb
>    
A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user or 
not. It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide 
some questions depending on the answer.

The "Please rank thease features in order of importance" table is 
confusing to fill out. I think it would be better if users where asked 
to seperately indicate how important each item is (from 1 to 5) with no 
requirement to have one at each importance level, just a suggestion that 
it is not that helpfull to put everything at the same importance level.

Other than that the survey is good. Thanks for pursing it.

-- 
David Pottage

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:57, David Pottage <david@electric-spoon.com>=
 wrote:
> On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote:
>>
>> Here is a preview of the survey.
>>
>> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn'=
t fit
>> on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.
>>
>> Please comment!
>>
>> Click on the following link to test this survey:
>>
>> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=3D376617&crc=3D98980edf=
ce58a795c966488276754ddb
>>
>
> A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user o=
r not.
> It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide some
> questions depending on the answer.
>

Yep, but the problem is, as far as I can see, you don't have this
option for the type of account (free) I'm using on the site :/

> The "Please rank thease features in order of importance" table is con=
fusing
> to fill out. I think it would be better if users where asked to seper=
ately
> indicate how important each item is (from 1 to 5) with no requirement=
 to
> have one at each importance level, just a suggestion that it is not t=
hat
> helpfull to put everything at the same importance level.
>

Yes, indeed. I thought about a list of items and radio buttons. Will
update, just not right now though.

> Other than that the survey is good. Thanks for pursing it.
>

Thanks for the feedback!

--=20
=46rancis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com
"It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries" (St=C3=A9phane Faroult, in "Th=
e
Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
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Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Freddie Cash]

So far, very nice.  Some comments inline below.

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:57, David Pottage <david@electric-spoon.com> wrote:
>> On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is a preview of the survey.
>>>
>>> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn't fit
>>> on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.
>>>
>>> Please comment!
>>>
>>> Click on the following link to test this survey:
>>>
>>> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb
>>>
>>
>> A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user or not.
>> It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide some
>> questions depending on the answer.
>>
>
> Yep, but the problem is, as far as I can see, you don't have this
> option for the type of account (free) I'm using on the site :/

Perhaps add a separate choice (Do not currently use btrfs) to each
question after number 6?  That way, non-users like me can just breeze
through the rest of the survey, but you still get the information from
us for the first half of the survey.


-- 
Freddie Cash
fjwcash@gmail.com

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

[cc: list]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 17:26, K. Richard Pixley <rich@noir.com> wrote:
> =C2=A0#2 needs an answer dealing with "stability". =C2=A0Unstable doe=
sn't necessarily
> mean polluted file systems. =C2=A0It can also mean pathological behav=
ior, kernel
> crashes, etc.
>

Yes, indeed. Fixed.

> #4 needs an answer that involves performance - btrfs is, (arguably), =
the
> fastest file system currently available for linux in many situations.=
 =C2=A0That
> answer alone is a serious selling point.
>
> Another selling point for #4 is file system hardening. =C2=A0ext2 is =
still fast,
> but it can't generally survive power failures. =C2=A0If you're specif=
ically
> looking for a fast file system, then the fact that btrfs competes wel=
l in
> speed and is also hardened becomes a selling point.
>

Well, performance is not touted as a key feature on the btrfs wiki. I
have added "good overall performance" in the list of choices, though.

As to file system hardening, what do you mean apart from checksums?
=46undamental filesystem design?

> #15 presupposes it's own answer. =C2=A0While I've had no filesystems =
fail, every
> machine I use with btrfs file systems has failed numerous times -
> pathological behavior, kernel crashes, etc. =C2=A0In the absence of a=
 btrfsck I
> can't be sure that the file system has actually failed although rebui=
lding
> the file system seems to alleviate the symptoms temporarily.
>

I don't really see your point here. Can you elaborate? And yes, I _do_
mean filesystem failures, not machine failure. I made that explicit.

> #16 presupposes a failure mode.=C2=A0Again, my issues have more to do=
 with
> stability than with clear cases of file system pollution.
>

Point taken, but again, this is on purpose, I talk here about hosed
filesystems indeed.

Thanks for the feedback!
--=20
=46rancis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com
"It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries" (St=C3=A9phane Faroult, in "Th=
e
Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" =
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 19:48, Freddie Cash <fjwcash@gmail.com> wrote:
> So far, very nice. =C2=A0Some comments inline below.
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:07 AM, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.co=
m> wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:57, David Pottage <david@electric-spoon.c=
om> wrote:
>>> On 28/09/10 15:27, Francis Galiegue wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here is a preview of the survey.
>>>>
>>>> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it would=
n't fit
>>>> on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.
>>>>
>>>> Please comment!
>>>>
>>>> Click on the following link to test this survey:
>>>>
>>>> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=3D376617&crc=3D98980e=
dfce58a795c966488276754ddb
>>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of the questions are dependent on if the user is a btrfs user=
 or not.
>>> It would be nice ask that as a first question, and then to hide som=
e
>>> questions depending on the answer.
>>>
>>
>> Yep, but the problem is, as far as I can see, you don't have this
>> option for the type of account (free) I'm using on the site :/
>
> Perhaps add a separate choice (Do not currently use btrfs) to each
> question after number 6? =C2=A0That way, non-users like me can just b=
reeze
> through the rest of the survey, but you still get the information fro=
m
> us for the first half of the survey.
>

I think I'll just add a text on top of section 3 mentioning that you
can scroll right back to the end and complete if you don't use it...
The account is free beer, but features such as hiding pages depending
on an answer require you to buy whisky :/


--=20
=46rancis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com
"It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries" (St=C3=A9phane Faroult, in "Th=
e
Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" =
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:27, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com> w=
rote:
> Here is a preview of the survey.
>
> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn't=
 fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.
>
> Please comment!
>
> Click on the following link to test this survey:
> http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=3D376617&crc=3D98980edfc=
e58a795c966488276754ddb
>

Updated with the feedback I have had so far.

--=20
=46rancis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com
"It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries" (St=C3=A9phane Faroult, in "Th=
e
Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" =
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Andreas Philipp]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
 
On 28.09.2010 21:00, Francis Galiegue wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 16:27, Francis Galiegue <fgaliegue@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Here is a preview of the survey.
>>
>> I have not included *all* feature requests yet, otherwise it wouldn't
fit on a screen :), but I think I have chosen the most important ones.
>>
>> Please comment!
>>
>> Click on the following link to test this survey:
>>
http://appv3.sgizmo.com/testsurvey/survey?id=376617&crc=98980edfce58a795c966488276754ddb
>
> Updated with the feedback I have had so far.
In the question about the features one is using day by day on the last
page "Multiple device (RAID)" is listed twice.
Everything else looks really nice.

Kind Regards,
Andreas
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Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 21:18, Andreas Philipp
<philipp.andreas@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> In the question about the features one is using day by day on the las=
t
> page "Multiple device (RAID)" is listed twice.

Noticed, and fixed that. It's a bug with surveygizmo, in fact.

> Everything else looks really nice.
>

Thanks!

Will publish as is, unless someone has objections.

--=20
=46rancis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com
"It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries" (St=C3=A9phane Faroult, in "Th=
e
Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" =
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[cwillu]

Question 16 needs an "other" option, or some elaboration  (I've had
things fixed via tool patches from developers).

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Francis Galiegue]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 21:27, cwillu <cwillu@cwillu.com> wrote:
> Question 16 needs an "other" option, or some elaboration =C2=A0(I've =
had
> things fixed via tool patches from developers).
>

Yes, I thought about this and forgot to add this answer. Fixed!

--=20
=46rancis Galiegue, fgaliegue@gmail.com
"It seems obvious [...] that at least some 'business intelligence'
tools invest so much intelligence on the business side that they have
nothing left for generating SQL queries" (St=C3=A9phane Faroult, in "Th=
e
Art of SQL", ISBN 0-596-00894-5)
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-btrfs" =
in
the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[Kristian Lyngstol]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 246 bytes --]

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:27:57AM -0400, Francis Galiegue wrote:
> Here is a preview of the survey.

Very nice.

Question #2 might benefit from a "I only use btrfs for testing purposes"
might be useful. Possibly even with a comment?

- Kristian

[-- Attachment #2: Digital signature --]
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Re: Francis Galiegue would like your help testing a survey

[K. Richard Pixley]

  On 9/28/10 11:47 , Francis Galiegue wrote:
> As to file system hardening, what do you mean apart from checksums?
> Fundamental filesystem design?
I specifically mean the intended ability to survive a power failure.

Historically, unix file systems lived in the disk cache such that a 
power failure would result in a polluted file system.  This would 
require an fsck pass to clear out the errors and "recover" the file 
system although data lost was still data lost.

A while back, (some time in the 90's), most unix file systems were 
"hardened" such that a power failure would generally _not_ result in a 
file system pollution.  Ext2 is not hardened.  Ext3 has an optional 
journal which provides file system hardening.

Ext2 is faster than ext3 but also suffers from smaller file system size 
limits.  Btrfs, in "-m single -d single" mode is hardened and competes 
favorably against ext2 for speed.  All other linux file systems are 
either not hardened, slower, or both.  (Although nilfs2 is also hardened 
and somewhere between ext2 and ext3 speeds.)
>> #15 presupposes it's own answer.  While I've had no filesystems fail, every
>> machine I use with btrfs file systems has failed numerous times -
>> pathological behavior, kernel crashes, etc.  In the absence of a btrfsck I
>> can't be sure that the file system has actually failed although rebuilding
>> the file system seems to alleviate the symptoms temporarily.
> I don't really see your point here. Can you elaborate? And yes, I _do_
> mean filesystem failures, not machine failure. I made that explicit.
It's simple.  I can't tell if I've had file system pollution because we 
don't have a functional btrfsck.  I only know that I have file systems 
which have reached a state where the kernel was unable to use them 
constructively.  I can't tell whether this state was due to a data error 
in the file system or a coding error in the file system driver which 
couldn't cope with a valid state of the file system.
>> #16 presupposes a failure mode. Again, my issues have more to do with
>> stability than with clear cases of file system pollution
> Point taken, but again, this is on purpose, I talk here about hosed
> filesystems indeed.
Then I think you need to ask the same question again with respect to 
system failures due to btrfs which aren't necessarily file system failures.

Imagine this for a moment - pretend that any time btrfs were in your 
kernel your kernel were only capable of network speeds of 1Mbps.  Data 
was correct both in your btrfs file systems and in your network 
interfaces - but you were horribly restricted in your network 
interfaces.  This would not represent a polluted btrfs file system and 
yet it would clearly represent a "broken" system by most people's 
definitions.  It's these cases I'm looking to see represented in the 
questionnaire because these are the types of failures I've been seeing.  
And in the absence of a reliable btrfsck, we can't really determine the 
existence of file system pollution anyway - we can only guess that we 
might have polluted file systems.

--rich