RE: value computed is not used ??

RE: value computed is not used ??

[Huber, George K RDECOM CERDEC STCD SRI]

-----Original Message-----
From: linux-c-programming-owner@vger.kernel.org
[mailto:linux-c-programming-owner@vger.kernel.org]On Behalf Of Charlie
Gordon
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 12:09 PM
To: linux-c-programming@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: value computed is not used ??

Charlie wrote (qoting J.)

>> I understood everything in the above answer except for one issue ? Why
is:
>> int main(void) {
>> The wrong prototype for main ? main() schould return `0' or `1' etc ?!?
>> Thank you very much for taking the effort to explain and answer.
>> Jeroen.

>the proper prototype for main is
>int main(int argc, char **argv);
>or possibly :
>int main(int argc, char *argv[]);
>which is semantically equivalent, but emphasises the fact that argv points
>to an array of char*

I to am a little confused on why you state that int main(void) is an
incorrect 
prototype for main?  Quoting from the C99 - draft standard,

"The function called at program startup is named main.  The implementation
declares
no prototype for this function.  It shall be defined with a return type of
int and with
no parameters:
    int main(void) {/* ... */}
or with two parameters (referred to hear as argc and argv, though any names
may be used, 
as they are local to the function in which they are declared):
    int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {/* ... *.}
or equivalent, or in some other implementation-defined manner." (section
5.1.2.2.1)

This seems to imply that either prototype for main may be used.  Is this a
new 
addition to the C99 standard, or am I missing something here.

George





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RE: value computed is not used ??

[Glynn Clements]

Huber, George K RDECOM CERDEC STCD SRI wrote:

> > > I understood everything in the above answer except for one issue ? Why is:
> > > int main(void) {
> > > The wrong prototype for main ? main() schould return `0' or `1' etc ?!?
> > > Thank you very much for taking the effort to explain and answer.
> > > Jeroen.
>   
> > the proper prototype for main is
> > int main(int argc, char **argv);
> > or possibly :
> > int main(int argc, char *argv[]);
> > which is semantically equivalent, but emphasises the fact that argv points
> > to an array of char*
> 
> I to am a little confused on why you state that int main(void) is an
> incorrect 
> prototype for main?  Quoting from the C99 - draft standard,
> 
> "The function called at program startup is named main.  The implementation
> declares
> no prototype for this function.  It shall be defined with a return type of
> int and with
> no parameters:
>     int main(void) {/* ... */}
> or with two parameters (referred to hear as argc and argv, though any names
> may be used, 
> as they are local to the function in which they are declared):
>     int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {/* ... *.}
> or equivalent, or in some other implementation-defined manner." (section
> 5.1.2.2.1)
> 
> This seems to imply that either prototype for main may be used.  Is this a
> new addition to the C99 standard, or am I missing something here.

If a function uses the C calling convention (which is true for almost
everything except for functions which are exported from Windows DLLs),
you can safely supply more arguments than the function expects. So
long as the run-time supplies argc and argv, either prototype will
actually work.

In practice, Unix systems tend to use:

	int main(int argc, char **argv, char **envp)

where envp is the array of environment variables (also available
through the global variable "environ").

So you can declare main() with any subset of these arguments, i.e. any
of:

	int main(void)
	int main(int argc)
	int main(int argc, char **argv)
	int main(int argc, char **argv, char **envp)

-- 
Glynn Clements <glynn.clements@virgin.net>

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Charlie Gordon]

> > I to am a little confused on why you state that int main(void) is an
> > incorrect
> > prototype for main?  Quoting from the C99 - draft standard,
> >
> > "The function called at program startup is named main.  The
implementation
> > declares
> > no prototype for this function.  It shall be defined with a return type
of
> > int and with
> > no parameters:
> >     int main(void) {/* ... */}
> > or with two parameters (referred to hear as argc and argv, though any
names
> > may be used,
> > as they are local to the function in which they are declared):
> >     int main(int argc, char* argv[]) {/* ... *.}
> > or equivalent, or in some other implementation-defined manner." (section
> > 5.1.2.2.1)
> >
>
> If a function uses the C calling convention (which is true for almost
> everything except for functions which are exported from Windows DLLs),
> you can safely supply more arguments than the function expects. So
> long as the run-time supplies argc and argv, either prototype will
> actually work.
>
> In practice, Unix systems tend to use:
>
> int main(int argc, char **argv, char **envp)
>
> where envp is the array of environment variables (also available
> through the global variable "environ").
>
> So you can declare main() with any subset of these arguments, i.e. any
> of:
>
> int main(void)
> int main(int argc)
> int main(int argc, char **argv)
> int main(int argc, char **argv, char **envp)
>

All right, you win.
It just strikes me as a bad habit to declare main without at least argc and
argv.
Proof reading is about idioms, the more you part from proven practices, the
easier it is to write bug ridden code, and the more tedious it becomes to
verify said code at code review level.
For example, for loops written with the <= operator are quite likely to
contain off by one errors.  It catches my eye instantly, and I tend to be
rewarded often !  Same remark with casual do/while loops.
int main(void);  strikes me as 'beginners C code' and trips me off.

So there is nothing wrong with the prototype, just like there was nothing
wrong with rest on the small program : it compiles, and performs correctly,
but you will all admit that my other remarks were still making valid points.

Chqrlie.

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Glynn Clements]

Charlie Gordon wrote:

> All right, you win.
> It just strikes me as a bad habit to declare main without at least argc and
> argv.
> Proof reading is about idioms, the more you part from proven practices, the
> easier it is to write bug ridden code, and the more tedious it becomes to
> verify said code at code review level.
> For example, for loops written with the <= operator are quite likely to
> contain off by one errors.  It catches my eye instantly, and I tend to be
> rewarded often !  Same remark with casual do/while loops.
> int main(void);  strikes me as 'beginners C code' and trips me off.
> 
> So there is nothing wrong with the prototype,

Ultimately, prototypes exist so that function calls can be
type-checked. As nothing[1] actually calls main(), the prototype is
irrelevant; a K&R-style definition[2] would suffice.

[1] Other than the runtime, which has already been compiled, and so
cannot make use of any prototype.

[2] I.e.:

	int main()
		int argc;
		char **argv;
	{ /* ... */ }

In a K&R-style definition, the argument declarations exist solely so
that the function body can refer to the arguments by name. If the
function doesn't actually use the arguments, there is no point in
declaring them.

> just like there was nothing wrong with rest on the small program :
> it compiles, and performs correctly,

That's a matter of opinion. As you pointed out, initialising an
automatic array is less than ideal; while it will work, it is seldom
the right approach.

But, more generally, the original program clearly wasn't intended to
be a practical utility, but an example. In which case (and coupled
with the fact that it was posted to this list), whether or not it
ultimately "works" is arguably less relevant than whether it was
written "correctly" (in an entirely subjective sense).

> but you will all admit that my other remarks were still making valid
> points.

Yes.

-- 
Glynn Clements <glynn.clements@virgin.net>

Re: functions to determine dementions of console?

[Christoph Bussenius]

On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 11:35:18PM +0300, Micha Feigin wrote:
> Its usually done using the environment variables in COLUMNS, AFAIK. They
> appear after the first null of argv IIRC.

I believe this is only a bash feature.

Regards,
Christoph

-- 
``There's no dark side of the moon, really
Matter of fact, it's all dark''

--Pink Floyd

value computed is not used ??

[J.]

Tuesday, June 01 03:33:22

Hi ...

When I try to compile the listed program, with gcc version 2.95.4 20011002
and the command `gcc -Wall program.c -o program` It gives me a warning
message like: warning: value computed is not used

The program works perfectly fine, as far as I can judge the code isn't
wrong in any way ? And the value is certainly used.. Unfortunatly this
message shows to many times when I try to compile other code at my system.

Can anyone explain to me what the sense behind that warning is ? And what
to do about it ? e.g. what the ``better way`` of coding would be?

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void) {
 char *ptr = NULL;
 char str[] = "whats up";

 for(ptr = str; *ptr; *ptr++) {
  printf("%c", *ptr);
 }

 printf("\n");
 return 0;
}

Thnkx a lot...

Jeroen.

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Glynn Clements]

J. wrote:

> When I try to compile the listed program, with gcc version 2.95.4 20011002
> and the command `gcc -Wall program.c -o program` It gives me a warning
> message like: warning: value computed is not used
> 
> The program works perfectly fine, as far as I can judge the code isn't
> wrong in any way ? And the value is certainly used.. Unfortunatly this
> message shows to many times when I try to compile other code at my system.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me what the sense behind that warning is ? And what
> to do about it ? e.g. what the ``better way`` of coding would be?
> 
> #include <stdio.h>
> 
> int main(void) {
>  char *ptr = NULL;
>  char str[] = "whats up";
> 
>  for(ptr = str; *ptr; *ptr++) {

	for(ptr = str; *ptr; ptr++) {

There is no point in dereferencing "ptr++", which is why you get the
warning.

-- 
Glynn Clements <glynn.clements@virgin.net>

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Charlie Gordon]

Let's do code review :

> #include <stdio.h>
>
> int main(void) {
this is not a the correct propotype for main.

>  char *ptr = NULL;
this initialization is useless.

>  char str[] = "whats up";
what a horrible thing to write : this effectively defines an automatic
char array that gets initialized by copying the string "what's up".
while this is fine for global data, it is very inefficient for automatic
variables.
a better way would be:
const char *str = "whats up";
const char *ptr;

>
>  for(ptr = str; *ptr; *ptr++) {
*ptr++ is causing the warning "value computed not used"
ptr++ suffices.

>   printf("%c", *ptr);
for completeness, let it be known that some snoddy compilers will complain
that the result of printf is not used.
why not write:
putchar(*ptr);

>  }
>
>  printf("\n");
same as above:
putchar('\n');

>  return 0;
> }

rework needed on 7 out of 8 non empty lines.
amazingly, there doesn't seem to be any algorithmic flaw in this simplistic
program.

Hope is helps.

Chqrlie.

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Charlie Gordon]

> I gave the program as an example; After all the answers I received
> from y'all I think I'm gonna throw away some c books I have used in the
> past or even burn them in a ritual kind a way :-) They are loaded with c
> code like the above.

There is indeed so much crap in print !

Here is some palatable food for thought I would recommend :
- The C programming language, 2nd edition (Kernighan and Ritchie)
- The practice of Programming (Kernighan and Pike)
- C traps and Pitfalls (Andrew Koenig)
- The C puzzle book (Alan R. Feuer)
- Expert C Programming (Peter Van der Linden)

As a rule of thumb, stay away from books more than an inch thick or using
more than 4 colors on the cover.

> I understood everything in the above answer except for one issue ? Why is:
> int main(void) {
> The wrong prototype for main ? main() schould return `0' or `1' etc ?!?
> Thank you very much for taking the effort to explain and answer.
> Jeroen.

the proper prototype for main is
int main(int argc, char **argv);
or possibly :
int main(int argc, char *argv[]);
which is semantically equivalent, but emphasises the fact that argv points
to an array of char*

The mere fact that you do not use the arguments doesn't justify a change of
prototypes. It may even become a portability issue in some circumstances.

Glad to help.

Chqrlie.

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Glynn Clements]

Charlie Gordon wrote:

> >  char *ptr = NULL;
> this initialization is useless.

Or possibly worse than useless.

Without the initialisation, if you tried to use it before it was
initialised, the compiler may generate a warning. The above
initialisation would eliminate the warning, and instead result in a
segfault (or, on an architecture which doesn't have an MMU, just
incorrect behaviour) at run time.

Responding to warnings by just "shutting the compiler up" is a common
programming flaw.

Probably the most common situation where this is dangerous is "fixing"
int/long mismatches using a type cast. You can get away with this if
sizeof(int) == sizeof(long) (e.g. i386). But on a system where
sizeof(int) != sizeof(long), the typecast may not work (or, at least,
not correctly), and eliminating the warnings will make it harder to
find (and actually fix) the problems.

-- 
Glynn Clements <glynn.clements@virgin.net>

Re: value computed is not used ??

[Micha Feigin]

On Tue, Jun 01, 2004 at 10:58:14PM +0100, Glynn Clements wrote:
> 
> Charlie Gordon wrote:
> 
> > >  char *ptr = NULL;
> > this initialization is useless.
> 
> Or possibly worse than useless.
> 
> Without the initialisation, if you tried to use it before it was
> initialised, the compiler may generate a warning. The above
> initialisation would eliminate the warning, and instead result in a

On the other hand it allows you to check for pointer initialization
later to see if you already put a meaningful value in it, and in big
programs there is more use for that then the chance of a compiler error
by using an uninitialized value (especially since a debugger will catch
that in a second).

> segfault (or, on an architecture which doesn't have an MMU, just
> incorrect behaviour) at run time.
> 

You have much worse head aches on MMU-less systems then accessing a NULL
initialized pointer, from experience ;-) (although it is a method the
kernel uses to generate and exception locking up the system on panic)

On the other hand what are the chances of him running into an mmu-less
system considering its only a few embedded systems that are not using an
MMU these days.

> Responding to warnings by just "shutting the compiler up" is a common
> programming flaw.
> 
> Probably the most common situation where this is dangerous is "fixing"
> int/long mismatches using a type cast. You can get away with this if
> sizeof(int) == sizeof(long) (e.g. i386). But on a system where
> sizeof(int) != sizeof(long), the typecast may not work (or, at least,
> not correctly), and eliminating the warnings will make it harder to
> find (and actually fix) the problems.
> 
> -- 
> Glynn Clements <glynn.clements@virgin.net>
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