From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28DC4C83F14 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 06:34:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229485AbjH2Gdx (ORCPT ); Tue, 29 Aug 2023 02:33:53 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:47264 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S231455AbjH2Gdd (ORCPT ); Tue, 29 Aug 2023 02:33:33 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCEBB13E; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2b95d5ee18dso59666771fa.1; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:33:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693290809; x=1693895609; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:subject:from:references:cc:to :content-language:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cK2hK31b0m5rDzqp3vB26ZBGv/YhBK2MTESfxpIodNM=; b=CbLIshFjC6vK98lxHBO6x7GJ5PZxzFSZyhs5lmNXWrgvbF0uoUHxkdWAnUC3laoGTR UaNUnp5Ia6VWb5z2cy9c6CY89pm7bvKIg8kV007CjtXjIGK5CU6CM7WHSQKbQp7aLxwU uczzJPb8M9/fKhnE15XIoe+QeNXHuSfJjQqiUk/sEo0iV6yMDCIDCsa+8OHjO7R7mBl4 F8K/Fz7fG2JmXZe7XRMVO3Mso+BvNmdNywWmICnDjVeHtu3ne4sq+EXbNL6Pf7MNUE3J k+LYikltfJ+K19rcxmZyvOyq7+ArhoOM23tEbzg2Wevb3/Uz19ML1c7/Isuy3N/lqQY8 qjDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693290809; x=1693895609; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:subject:from:references:cc:to :content-language:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cK2hK31b0m5rDzqp3vB26ZBGv/YhBK2MTESfxpIodNM=; b=jg4ia7SAzhfg6XU/jSodc9F4aA/5SLw0gK01XW/3iTzn7ba/6mRvEF3VQrIFcZq+rS 4e9N0P4RL04dvPImUoHPeKwA4etqn27s54fr0TkOfAF2olGRXN+Oide5FRmOttGATUT2 Y5pnusso89dadHdu7pNsFo/Kt5iwF4BZYVJ7p/NBojmuz7p5kiSROJozBTq2SQayOhtm /a0D/a8MlT9WeCTj9jIXFXDCsdbMDNv2psBNG5I4jmCkQ7OLIfUyq7TBIp1IMQ3zdEWZ SIzwD/UxWdu0X5YFLmiZVxba1ENCpH9JmsCJ6vHW3OH0g8eiwXo2/nvrpxEcfDq2zjFz plfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxNWBBprA+VJXNX3BIl3mPhz1dHtpsFXBviUOeNW+euP68hDQzM Jnx01f+dAo0UjhPMoaEOSLE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IELbkZD8D9cvA4oLG68kKjvzxKhf1sFhYmmlRm5TeBqZ5xCJ+R/+WddA/SDTdg/WpoAySpJoQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7008:0:b0:2bc:d8fd:13df with SMTP id l8-20020a2e7008000000b002bcd8fd13dfmr14313727ljc.41.1693290808688; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.196.206] ([213.255.186.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u16-20020a2e8550000000b002b9af8422a8sm2004439ljj.130.2023.08.28.23.33.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 28 Aug 2023 23:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7ca3b60f-e59f-b578-7c22-48487663cfa7@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2023 09:33:27 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Content-Language: en-US, en-GB To: Andy Shevchenko Cc: Jonathan Cameron , Mehdi Djait , krzysztof.kozlowski+dt@linaro.org, robh+dt@kernel.org, lars@metafoo.de, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org References: <923d01408680f5ac88ca8ee565a990645578ee83.1692824815.git.mehdi.djait.k@gmail.com> <20230827190732.5e2215d0@jic23-huawei> <61247547-690c-fb8b-3a45-cd60754836a7@gmail.com> From: Matti Vaittinen Subject: Re: [PATCH v8 6/7] iio: accel: kionix-kx022a: Add a function to retrieve number of bytes in buffer In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: devicetree@vger.kernel.org On 8/28/23 13:53, Andy Shevchenko wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 09:24:25AM +0300, Matti Vaittinen wrote: >> On 8/27/23 21:09, Jonathan Cameron wrote: > > ... > >> I think that people who work on a driver like this should guess what this is >> for. > > _This_ is the result of what people always forgot to think about, i.e. newcomers. Thanks Andy. This was a good heads-up for me. I do also see the need for fresh blood here - we aren't getting any younger. > What _if_ the newcomer starts with this code and already being puzzled enough on > what the heck the function does. With all ambiguity we rise the threshold for the > newcomers and make the kernel project not attractive to start with I really appreciate you making a point about attracting newcomers (and there is no sarcasm in this statement). I however don't think we're rising the bar here. If a newcomer wants to work on a device-driver, the _first_ thing to do is to be familiar with the device. Without prior experience of this kind of devices it is really a must to get the data-sheet and see how the device operates before jumping into reading the code. I would say that after reading the fifo lvl description from data-sheet this should be obvious - and no, I don't think we should replicate the data-sheet documentation in the drivers for parts that aren't very peculiar. But the question how to attract newcomers to kernel is very valid and I guess that not too many of us is thinking of it. Actually, I think we should ask from the newcomers we have that what has been the most repulsive part of the work when they have contributed. (besides the > C language which is already considered as mastodon among youngsters). I think this is at least partially the truth. However, I think that in many cases one of the issues goes beyond the language - many younger generation people I know aren't really interested in _why_ things work, they just want to get things working in any way they can - and nowadays when you can find a tutorial for pretty much anything - one really can just look up instruction about how a "foobar can be made to buzz" instead of trying to figure out what makes a "foobar to buzz" in order to make it to buzz. So, I don't blame people getting used to take a different approach. (Not sure this makes sense - don't really know how to express my thoughts about this in a clear way - besides, it may not even matter). Anyways, I am pretty sure that - as with any community - the way people are treated and how their contribution is appreciated is the key to make them feel good and like the work. I think that in some cases it may include allowing new contributors to get their code merged when it has reached "good enough" state - even if it was not perfect. (Sure, when things are good enough is subject to greater minds than me to ponder) ;) Yours, -- Matti -- Matti Vaittinen Linux kernel developer at ROHM Semiconductors Oulu Finland ~~ When things go utterly wrong vim users can always type :help! ~~