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[2003:ea:8f0c:3300:d82c:9b4c:1c3c:2591]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3ecdd1ef000sm1200246f8f.24.2025.09.16.13.56.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Sep 2025 13:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2025 22:56:26 +0200 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: devicetree@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Question on generic PCI ACPI/DT device property wrt ASPM To: Bjorn Helgaas Cc: Rob Herring , Krzysztof Kozlowski , Conor Dooley , Bjorn Helgaas , devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, Chia-Lin Kao References: <20250916202531.GA1814806@bhelgaas> Content-Language: en-US From: Heiner Kallweit Autocrypt: addr=hkallweit1@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBF/0ZFUBEAC0eZyktSE7ZNO1SFXL6cQ4i4g6Ah3mOUIXSB4pCY5kQ6OLKHh0FlOD5/5/ sY7IoIouzOjyFdFPnz4Bl3927ClT567hUJJ+SNaFEiJ9vadI6vZm2gcY4ExdIevYHWe1msJF MVE4yNwdS+UsPeCF/6CQQTzHc+n7DomE7fjJD5J1hOJjqz2XWe71fTvYXzxCFLwXXbBiqDC9 dNqOe5odPsa4TsWZ09T33g5n2nzTJs4Zw8fCy8rLqix/raVsqr8fw5qM66MVtdmEljFaJ9N8 /W56qGCp+H8Igk/F7CjlbWXiOlKHA25mPTmbVp7VlFsvsmMokr/imQr+0nXtmvYVaKEUwY2g 86IU6RAOuA8E0J5bD/BeyZdMyVEtX1kT404UJZekFytJZrDZetwxM/cAH+1fMx4z751WJmxQ J7mIXSPuDfeJhRDt9sGM6aRVfXbZt+wBogxyXepmnlv9K4A13z9DVLdKLrYUiu9/5QEl6fgI kPaXlAZmJsQfoKbmPqCHVRYj1lpQtDM/2/BO6gHASflWUHzwmBVZbS/XRs64uJO8CB3+V3fa cIivllReueGCMsHh6/8wgPAyopXOWOxbLsZ291fmZqIR0L5Y6b2HvdFN1Xhc+YrQ8TKK+Z4R mJRDh0wNQ8Gm89g92/YkHji4jIWlp2fwzCcx5+lZCQ1XdqAiHQARAQABzSZIZWluZXIgS2Fs bHdlaXQgPGhrYWxsd2VpdDFAZ21haWwuY29tPsLBjgQTAQgAOBYhBGxfqY/yOyXjyjJehXLe ig9U8DoMBQJf9GRVAhsDBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEHLeig9U8DoMSycQ AJbfg8HZEK0ljV4M8nvdaiNixWAufrcZ+SD8zhbxl8GispK4F3Yo+20Y3UoZ7FcIidJWUUJL axAOkpI/70YNhlqAPMsuudlAieeYZKjIv1WV5ucNZ3VJ7dC+dlVqQdAr1iD869FZXvy91KhJ wYulyCf+s4T9YgmLC6jLMBZghKIf1uhSd0NzjyCqYWbk2ZxByZHgunEShOhHPHswu3Am0ftt ePaYIHgZs+Vzwfjs8I7EuW/5/f5G9w1vibXxtGY/GXwgGGHRDjFM7RSprGOv4F5eMGh+NFUJ TU9N96PQYMwXVxnQfRXl8O6ffSVmFx4H9rovxWPKobLmqQL0WKLLVvA/aOHCcMKgfyKRcLah 57vGC50Ga8oT2K1g0AhKGkyJo7lGXkMu5yEs0m9O+btqAB261/E3DRxfI1P/tvDZpLJKtq35 dXsj6sjvhgX7VxXhY1wE54uqLLHY3UZQlmH3QF5t80MS7/KhxB1pO1Cpcmkt9hgyzH8+5org +9wWxGUtJWNP7CppY+qvv3SZtKJMKsxqk5coBGwNkMms56z4qfJm2PUtJQGjA65XWdzQACib 2iaDQoBqGZfXRdPT0tC1H5kUJuOX4ll1hI/HBMEFCcO8++Bl2wcrUsAxLzGvhINVJX2DAQaF aNetToazkCnzubKfBOyiTqFJ0b63c5dqziAgzsFNBF/0ZFUBEADF8UEZmKDl1w/UxvjeyAeX kghYkY3bkK6gcIYXdLRfJw12GbvMioSguvVzASVHG8h7NbNjk1yur6AONfbUpXKSNZ0skV8V fG+ppbaY+zQofsSMoj5gP0amwbwvPzVqZCYJai81VobefTX2MZM2Mg/ThBVtGyzV3NeCpnBa 8AX3s9rrX2XUoCibYotbbxx9afZYUFyflOc7kEpc9uJXIdaxS2Z6MnYLHsyVjiU6tzKCiVOU KJevqvzPXJmy0xaOVf7mhFSNQyJTrZpLa+tvB1DQRS08CqYtIMxRrVtC0t0LFeQGly6bOngr ircurWJiJKbSXVstLHgWYiq3/GmCSx/82ObeLO3PftklpRj8d+kFbrvrqBgjWtMH4WtK5uN5 1WJ71hWJfNchKRlaJ3GWy8KolCAoGsQMovn/ZEXxrGs1ndafu47yXOpuDAozoHTBGvuSXSZo ythk/0EAuz5IkwkhYBT1MGIAvNSn9ivE5aRnBazugy0rTRkVggHvt3/7flFHlGVGpBHxFUwb /a4UjJBPtIwa4tWR8B1Ma36S8Jk456k2n1id7M0LQ+eqstmp6Y+UB+pt9NX6t0Slw1NCdYTW gJezWTVKF7pmTdXszXGxlc9kTrVUz04PqPjnYbv5UWuDd2eyzGjrrFOsJEi8OK2d2j4FfF++ AzOMdW09JVqejQARAQABwsF2BBgBCAAgFiEEbF+pj/I7JePKMl6Fct6KD1TwOgwFAl/0ZFUC GwwACgkQct6KD1TwOgxUfg//eAoYc0Vm4NrxymfcY30UjHVD0LgSvU8kUmXxil3qhFPS7KA+ y7tgcKLHOkZkXMX5MLFcS9+SmrAjSBBV8omKoHNo+kfFx/dUAtz0lot8wNGmWb+NcHeKM1eb nwUMOEa1uDdfZeKef/U/2uHBceY7Gc6zPZPWgXghEyQMTH2UhLgeam8yglyO+A6RXCh+s6ak Wje7Vo1wGK4eYxp6pwMPJXLMsI0ii/2k3YPEJPv+yJf90MbYyQSbkTwZhrsokjQEaIfjrIk3 rQRjTve/J62WIO28IbY/mENuGgWehRlTAbhC4BLTZ5uYS0YMQCR7v9UGMWdNWXFyrOB6PjSu Trn9MsPoUc8qI72mVpxEXQDLlrd2ijEWm7Nrf52YMD7hL6rXXuis7R6zY8WnnBhW0uCfhajx q+KuARXC0sDLztcjaS3ayXonpoCPZep2Bd5xqE4Ln8/COCslP7E92W1uf1EcdXXIrx1acg21 H/0Z53okMykVs3a8tECPHIxnre2UxKdTbCEkjkR4V6JyplTS47oWMw3zyI7zkaadfzVFBxk2 lo/Tny+FX1Azea3Ce7oOnRUEZtWSsUidtIjmL8YUQFZYm+JUIgfRmSpMFq8JP4VH43GXpB/S OCrl+/xujzvoUBFV/cHKjEQYBxo+MaiQa1U54ykM2W4DnHb1UiEf5xDkFd4= In-Reply-To: <20250916202531.GA1814806@bhelgaas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 9/16/2025 10:25 PM, Bjorn Helgaas wrote: > [+cc AceLan] > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 09:48:06PM +0200, Heiner Kallweit wrote: >> There are drivers (in my case r8169) disabling ASPM for a device per default >> because there are known issues on a number of systems. However on other >> systems ASPM works flawlessly, and vendors (especially of notebooks) would >> like to (re-)enable ASPM for this device on such systems. > > I would definitely love to be able to fully enable ASPM on these > devices everywhere and rip the ASPM code out of r8169. > >> Reference: >> https://lore.kernel.org/netdev/20250912072939.2553835-1-acelan.kao@canonical.com/ >> >> Realtek NICs are used on more or less every consumer device, and maintaining >> long DMI-based whitelists wouldn't be too nice. >> >> Therefore idea is to use a device property (working title: aspm-is-safe), that >> can be set via ACPI or DT. In my case it's a PCIe NIC, but in general the >> property could be applicable on every PCIe device. >> So question is to which schema such a property would belong. Here? >> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/next/linux-next.git/tree/Documentation/devicetree/bindings/pci/pci-ep.yaml?h=next-20250916 > > I'm not super enthused about yet more knobs to control ASPM based on > issues we don't completely understand. > > Quirks that say "X is broken on this device" are to be expected, but I > have a hard time understanding a quirk that says "this feature works > as it's supposed to." > > If ASPM works on some systems but not others, it's either because some > Downstream Ports leading to the NIC have defects or Linux (or BIOS) is > configuring ASPM incorrectly sometimes. > > I think we just need to figure this out. I'm tempted to say we've been having the ASPM issues with Realtek NICs for decades now, and so far there was no good way to "just figure this out". Some issues: - We only see the tip of the iceberg (the users reporting ASPM issues to linux kernel bugzilla) - These Realtek NICs are on hundreds of consumer mainboard/system types, with endless chances of problematic NIC chip version / PCIe chipset / BIOS issues combinations. Therefore a whitelist property might be the least bad option.