From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49AF8C433EF for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 12:03:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D7396120D for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2021 12:03:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S238132AbhKHMGK (ORCPT ); Mon, 8 Nov 2021 07:06:10 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:60877 "EHLO mout.gmx.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S238065AbhKHMGK (ORCPT ); Mon, 8 Nov 2021 07:06:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1636373002; bh=7FNmA+y9LJTvWIvcEPrCOm7GfS4eaopz5GWAAGvl3gE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=DrgGcOCLGYCvYGWUf1v+QJ6MLYAJCXu93n2uoz8Lm9A6RqHoid+rAyNrfOXE5qfwS Gven80ESHwnIsbUPGAIQ1SExFEmgIYv3CyeN1dpFkY8wOrhC2Y56Qc0X+tX8IdjzwW UAvH4d+X0+SH6FvixEakz9DO8R9dc3MfjMHDtby0= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.252] ([46.146.146.157]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MwQXN-1mTUYW3dHZ-00sN3E; Mon, 08 Nov 2021 13:03:22 +0100 Message-ID: <0b78b74e-5c72-1258-8373-5385d5709a6c@gmx.com> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 12:03:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 (RFC)] docs: discourage users from using bugzilla.kernel.org To: Jani Nikula , Linux Kernel Mailing List , linux-doc@vger.kernel.org References: <20210110121033.130504-1-linux@leemhuis.info> <6abc7248-efda-b569-9030-5384e5ce1f29@gmx.com> <87mtme98l6.fsf@intel.com> From: "Artem S. Tashkinov" In-Reply-To: <87mtme98l6.fsf@intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+RCEZKEgwW2bGVsuzgNUPp1xkt7Eg0h3fkHCehIXwF62MIibs9O S79V2R+i7iJ1NeiAcyvGDkxhmAzOHGvWm8aXyA6sJMWsS+N3AgLndaoWKf2ZuTxvIvQO0Xu m9yr2xi+n9qI1JDlUE5WgfBHwGCQ5hXw4zfORbEpCYoYfb8X2lwMXYOrMbJ020y3EEOjdQu 4FKJryBGBwi5xyeoZEvBQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Z3aOnR4jfg0=:FoJ55jH+nwy6CCV/1h4J1c QrTempK/b5jC5rxn1PUhPjd3JvATopnyyJUqOOIrXh42GBC2x2AGsy06jER7hdjaMksfwq5fy SX8wHrIQeFSNyJgpJNZogW/P2DK2izAeEuJTZPHrEUuqKbIJBDAUtdCjYkEAk2cRNCliO3sz1 bziYTg0gK5fZbhWvmYn7wBHqFdzovJkfeyJ3tM7D4wV8nqfRAKpk0cTMWKTK4FBRyrqUwlyYJ +284HoKuyVeAv15IYiQDtMkAaM/qPGxyqmVPHJg1lKA3lQcDlSmzxCr/9+mZrkk/k6vpe4+nd BqV+tiw11OVxTuUfLhnDrWGcXTkQ1rkmPFNo5oxO38YDi/E/1YBUKpM74/S30FIklg+y3Omr4 tJ8STigGsSrJGto13/UGsFtaEreN1jCWABGjnpGyOeSaBnzo+iqobfWKJ0RIojyUt3bBG/PMu zC1HvZDoRyB/mku3bfIwqq9evBfO0L0aAVGVa1d5PlrzvsUeYK6EyD63BUgg7oNkiDaQdIu4f YowzWtaxqokhhKz3pSxNT+pSDlNj9nNpfNY6DU6Cap/8yVr0lS1kCK4KuAtaqmtMu5e0eAVSG Jh7NOaUPPe6M+5S0GmkWqz2pkIei18ZLKCBM107iT5vW5jhDqoUAbhhJ/IbNaV9TRn92q81zg J72rsJbh7odOd7lF7rncCGfzOtgv3iRj3ewhhqpP8LpoxOf6D8O3n5CFw2qaRQZAExtfRT9EH oiLATm1oc6G0Xw+8O76rheR/QJJzfqxvdbAQ7LSwc/A3TnJuZkx9Qsls94cmuMDxFaGugJ0Uc tmOgjxMqqAbjWSmqYIUUX9U9UurvFuGNQhcUAwc+YrYMg90ayet/JPvB6+uMVivhu/LUSpi8N L98KwC6O/k3HmOguzSfqElVkNfwfCJfVVGpX4s7WfP1zXE7QUv270x0ohu0QK+JK/+u1QCCBQ D7fPUdhMCRkp0KK2Annnq6Y6hN531AI3wXZBuKWKdGtKcPX9CLhP4aUpUcq6CiCLbPo4fe8NE nTaYfA5eGyOMY4aUvKPr7Nc9/xcxK6HODpDUdI1wvH83O7yWreL/L7WP9FT4zUPfqg== Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org On 11/8/21 11:43, Jani Nikula wrote: > On Fri, 05 Nov 2021, "Artem S. Tashkinov" wrote: >> Let me continue. >> >> Here's something which is really bad for bugzilla.kernel.org: >> >> People _continue_ to file bug reports for graphics drivers in Linux and >> we don't even have proper components for it, only >> >> Video (AGP) - What? AGP has been dead for a decade. >> Video (DRI - Non Intel) - what? Isn't it an X.org's feature, not kerne= l's? >> Video (Other) >> >> This is a complete and total clusterjoy. > > FWIW, for Intel graphics (i915) we don't want any bug reports at > bugzilla.kernel.org. We've migrated away more than five years ago. The > "Video (DRI - Intel)" component was closed for new bugs around that From my initial message: =2D-- 2.6 You're under the impression that users will read this wonderful document (reporting-bugs.rst). They will *not*, they will google for "report bug linux kernel" and find bugzilla.kernel.org 2) To integrate the first three with https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/ and automatically crosspost over there. =2D-- It does *not* help one bit that we have different bug trackers and mailing lists for a *single* component which is the kernel. No other software project under the sun makes the user rack their head trying to understand how and where to post bug reports. And then like I've mentioned earlier: =2D-- 2.1 Tons of messages in various kernel related mailing lists have zero replies and are not acted upon in any way or shape 2.2 There's no sense of accountability, no way to see what are the current issues, what's resolved or not 2.3 Users have an extremely hard time looking for bug reports which are spread along God knows where 2.4 It's impossible to follow up on such messages except when you were subscribed to the original mailing list, IOW just impossible 2.5 It's extremely difficult to collaborate since e-mail totally sucks when it comes to long discussions. =2D-- The Linux kernel bug reporting process is a complete clusterfuck and it looks like no one cares at all. The consensus is "the harder it is, the better" since unreported bugs means less work, accountability and responsibility. The fact that no one from FSF has replied to any of my messages is a further confirmation. Budget ~$2 million in FY 2019. I guess two million bucks are not enough to take proper care of the most important FSF project= . Can we shut down bugzilla.kernel.org completely? In its current form it's nothing but disgrace. > time, the description points at freedesktop.org as does MAINTAINERS: > > INTEL DRM DRIVERS (excluding Poulsbo, Moorestown and derivative chipsets= ) > B: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/wikis/How-to-file-i915-bug= s > > > BR, > Jani. > >