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[69.131.150.190]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 956f58d0204a3-65c2df82c2bsm2206257d50.3.2026.05.01.22.20.14 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 May 2026 22:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1d3f8659-8c69-47f6-bb38-4c1d06cf8307@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 2026 01:20:10 -0400 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] Documentation: security-bugs: explain what is and is not a security bug To: Greg KH , Willy Tarreau Cc: leon@kernel.org, security@kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , skhan@linuxfoundation.org, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Qubes Developer Mailing List References: <20260426163914.19449-1-w@1wt.eu> <20260426163914.19449-3-w@1wt.eu> <2026042753-ozone-jigsaw-4ad5@gregkh> <2026042724-bullhorn-bobtail-ae6f@gregkh> <2026042804-overbook-ripeness-73dd@gregkh> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; 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micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------gOEjW00h490myNpWbj6HCr9q" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------gOEjW00h490myNpWbj6HCr9q Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------k0ZK71pqLe0hnBNqt4308TdC"; protected-headers="v1" Message-ID: <1d3f8659-8c69-47f6-bb38-4c1d06cf8307@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 2026 01:20:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/3] Documentation: security-bugs: explain what is and is not a security bug To: Greg KH , Willy Tarreau Cc: leon@kernel.org, security@kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , skhan@linuxfoundation.org, workflows@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Qubes Developer Mailing List References: <20260426163914.19449-1-w@1wt.eu> <20260426163914.19449-3-w@1wt.eu> <2026042753-ozone-jigsaw-4ad5@gregkh> <2026042724-bullhorn-bobtail-ae6f@gregkh> <2026042804-overbook-ripeness-73dd@gregkh> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; 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boundary="------------LD1AGt4UE3SKePsLMH0rXyA6" --------------LD1AGt4UE3SKePsLMH0rXyA6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/28/26 17:13, Greg KH wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 06:14:15PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 09:35:04AM -0600, Greg KH wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 05:27:46PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote: >>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2026 at 07:48:23AM -0600, Greg KH wrote: >>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2026 at 06:39:13PM +0200, Willy Tarreau wrote: >>>>>> +In the Linux kernel's threat model, an issue is **not** a securit= y bug, and >>>>>> +should not be reported to the security list, when triggering it r= equires the >>>>>> +reporter to first undermine the system they are attacking. This = includes, but >>>>>> +is not limited to, behavior that only manifests after the adminis= trator has >>>>>> +explicitly enabled it (loading a module, setting a sysctl, writin= g to a debugfs >>>>>> +knob, or otherwise using an interface documented as privileged or= unsafe); bugs >>>>>> +reachable only through root or CAP_SYS_ADMIN or CAP_NET_ADMIN on = a machine the >>>>>> +actor already fully controls, with no further privilege boundary = being crossed; >>>>>> +prediction of random numbers that only works in a totally silent = environment >>>>>> +(such as IP ID, TCP ports or sequence numbers that can only be gu= essed in a >>>>>> +lab), issues that appear only in debug, lockdep, KASAN, fault-inj= ection, >>>>>> +CONFIG_NOMMU, or other developer-oriented kernel builds that are = not intended >>>>>> +for production use; problems seen only under development simulato= rs, emulators, >>>>>> +or fuzzing harnesses that present hardware or input states which = cannot occur >>>>>> +on real systems; bugs that require modified or emulated hardware;= missing >>>>>> +hardening or defence-in-depth suggestions with no demonstrable ex= ploit path >>>>>> +(including local ASLR bypass); mounting file systems that would b= e fixed or >>>>>> +rejected by fsck; and bugs in out-of-tree modules or vendor forks= , which should >>>>>> +be reported to the relevant vendor. Functional and performance r= egressions, >>>>>> +and disagreements with documented kernel policy (for example, "ro= ot can load >>>>>> +modules"), are likewise ordinary bugs or feature requests rather = than security >>>>>> +issues, and should be reported via the usual channels. >>>>> >>>>> This is a great list to start with, but perhaps we should put it in= list >>>>> form so that it's easier to read? >>>> >>>> In fact that's what I tried first and it was super long with many sh= ort >>>> lines, making it possibly worse. But maybe aggregating several short= >>>> entries on a line by similarities could work, I can give it a try. >>>> >>>>> Also, I can see this turning into a separate document eventually as= >>>>> different subsystems should have a chance to weigh in on what they >>>>> consider the threat model to be >>>> >>>> My fear if we redirect to other files is that it won't be read again= =2E >>>> However, we could possibly suggest to always look for the subsystem'= s >>>> specific rules in this subsytem's doc, leaving enough freedom to >>>> maintainers to reject more things. >>> >>> AI tools are good at following links, so I wouldn't worry about that.= >> >> Yes but let's not forget the minority of humble humans still sending >> honest reports ;-) >> >>> We can point at other files, as this list is going to get long over >>> time, which is a good thing. >> >> Sure. I'm just unsure where this could be enumerated, as it's likely >> that there would be just one or two lines max per subsystem for the >> majority of them. Or we could have a totally separate file, "threat >> model", that goes into great lengths detailing all this with sections >> per category or subsystem when they start to grow maybe, and refer onl= y >> to that one from security-bugs ? >=20 > I think a separate file is good, I know I need to write up what the USB= > model is, and it's different from PCI, and different from other > subsystems. All should probably be documented eventually. >=20 >>>>> (like what the IB subsystem does which I >>>>> don't think you listed above, or the USB subsystem.) >>>> >>>> Indeed I didn't list IB (I'm never sure about it, I seem to remember= >>>> we simply trust any peer, is that right?), nor did I make specific >>>> mentions for USB which is implicitly covered by "hardware emulation >>>> or modification". >>> >>> Ah, but USB does cover "some" modification of devices, so this is goi= ng >>> to be something that is good to document over time, if for no other >>> reason to keep these scanning tools in check from hallucinating crazy= >>> situations that are obviously not a valid thing we care about. >> >> OK but does this mean you still want to get these reports in the end ?= >=20 > I want a patch if a user cares about that threat-model (as Android does= > but no one else) as it's up to the user groups that want to change the > default kernel's behavior like this to actually submit patches to do so= =2E FYI, I don't think this is limited to Android. Chrome OS definitely cares about malicious USB devices, and the whole purpose of USBGuard is to prevent a USB device from being able to compromise the system unless authorized. I believe Qubes OS also cares, as it supports USB device assignment to virtual machines. CCing qubes-devel for confirmation. What should that patch look like? Could there be a way for these user groups to be informed of vulnerabilities in the USB subsystem, so that they can take responsibility for fixing them before they become public? It does make sense for those who care about the security of a subsystem to be responsible for vulnerabilities in that system, but right now I'm not sure how one would offer to take up that responsibility. --=20 Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers) --------------LD1AGt4UE3SKePsLMH0rXyA6 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_0xB288B55FFF9C22C1.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP public key Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49y B+l2nipdaq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYf bWpr/si88QKgyGSVZ7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/ UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnTDlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7M MPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPxwcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9H zx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvU 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Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEopQtqVJW1aeuo9/sszaHOrMp8lMFAmn1iYoACgkQszaHOrMp 8lNSJRAAm23zl2SXS24Cg+e0rTREDSBk0mTl7qZuY8wZmG0mx+qDuf4uZgNdzRl1 bReM+zY5idfhIkUb2ZtVkQnL0pnH+PMi77na7HTt6SlPLxlczq7+FfKic0y8UxEF VQEmWl+YhsiBQAePxQnqvBWm/UFEEw0R3aBZZ59KjgHjMOyQNHPRNG9RJgM2g0oF blyf7qIivpk45mJObnkqbdq1qwZg1EqlrzJuW95D38VgchRzqus2gU1+Jl3WIrpV yr/bh3X5rShdTUB48Xx67rJGIfPjZfHOxIOSEc5kwp4nAaIpZHc2vyOXwXVxyMKg vJvLCVq53o793y51ZfSYjMaICb18LWcTt7B3aNVfegxzyC5gLC39Wr1MWA0qV+nY 4JtVtsu/ODDEU5aRXMEnLZa96rL+E47h+mm7GOIdp+qdtGPuB8rwTvb9gm5eT+KL LLos+8ql4KmsZpns56xCLA6YiBlYGjcQwdbIuzsP/yzkBuOJV3IRtuApsaw89BuC ws/6OPKRM1gl+t4JT+szFX/X9hZkziNjoUuVAIW587Rv+kfkNoSCnj2FPKtMzr29 Gz5ddiN2L/MgI75txSHaILKPXpH2iAi5VQQldpsY4yMAypnTaltXezhMUVBusv7o FcWZE2sZrrE7+ammwpYCn+qa12wYQv9AMzVl+te5WtDol6JODwU= =3cxT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------gOEjW00h490myNpWbj6HCr9q--