[PATCH] docs: submitting-patches: Discuss interleaved replies

[PATCH] docs: submitting-patches: Discuss interleaved replies

[Kees Cook]

Top-posting has been strongly discouraged in Linux development, but this
was actually not written anywhere in the common documentation about
sending patches and replying to reviews. Add a section about trimming
and interleaved replies.

Cc: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>
Cc: Rong Tao <rtoax@foxmail.com>
Cc: Lukas Bulwahn <lukas.bulwahn@gmail.com>
Cc: Zhangfei Gao <zhangfei.gao@foxmail.com>
Cc: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org
Cc: linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org
Signed-off-by: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
---
 Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst | 23 ++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)

diff --git a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
index eac7167dce83..3e838da8822f 100644
--- a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
+++ b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
@@ -326,6 +326,29 @@ explaining difference aganst previous submission (see
 See Documentation/process/email-clients.rst for recommendations on email
 clients and mailing list etiquette.
 
+Use trimmed interleaved replies in email discussions
+----------------------------------------------------
+Top-posting is strongly discouraged in Linux kernel development
+discusions. Interleaved (or "inline") replies make conversations much
+easier to follow. For more details see:
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
+
+As is frequently quoted on the mailing list:
+
+  A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post
+  Q: Were do I find info about this thing called top-posting?
+  A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
+  Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
+  A: Top-posting.
+  Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
+
+Similarly, please trim all unneeded quotations that aren't relevant
+to your reply. This makes replies easier to find, and saves time and
+space. For more details see: http://daringfireball.net/2007/07/on_top
+
+  A: No.
+  Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
+
 .. _resend_reminders:
 
 Don't get discouraged - or impatient
-- 
2.34.1

Re: [PATCH] docs: submitting-patches: Discuss interleaved replies

[Greg Kroah-Hartman]

On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 11:34:26AM -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
> Top-posting has been strongly discouraged in Linux development, but this
> was actually not written anywhere in the common documentation about
> sending patches and replying to reviews. Add a section about trimming
> and interleaved replies.
> 
> Cc: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>
> Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
> Cc: Thorsten Leemhuis <linux@leemhuis.info>
> Cc: Rong Tao <rtoax@foxmail.com>
> Cc: Lukas Bulwahn <lukas.bulwahn@gmail.com>
> Cc: Zhangfei Gao <zhangfei.gao@foxmail.com>
> Cc: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org
> Cc: linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org
> Signed-off-by: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
> ---
>  Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst | 23 ++++++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> index eac7167dce83..3e838da8822f 100644
> --- a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> @@ -326,6 +326,29 @@ explaining difference aganst previous submission (see
>  See Documentation/process/email-clients.rst for recommendations on email
>  clients and mailing list etiquette.
>  
> +Use trimmed interleaved replies in email discussions
> +----------------------------------------------------
> +Top-posting is strongly discouraged in Linux kernel development
> +discusions. Interleaved (or "inline") replies make conversations much
> +easier to follow. For more details see:
> +https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
> +
> +As is frequently quoted on the mailing list:
> +
> +  A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post
> +  Q: Were do I find info about this thing called top-posting?
> +  A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> +  Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> +  A: Top-posting.
> +  Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> +
> +Similarly, please trim all unneeded quotations that aren't relevant
> +to your reply. This makes replies easier to find, and saves time and
> +space. For more details see: http://daringfireball.net/2007/07/on_top
> +
> +  A: No.
> +  Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> +
>  .. _resend_reminders:
>  
>  Don't get discouraged - or impatient
> -- 
> 2.34.1
> 

Yes!!!

Acked-by: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>

Re: [PATCH] docs: submitting-patches: Discuss interleaved replies

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

On 10.05.23 20:34, Kees Cook wrote:
> Top-posting has been strongly discouraged in Linux development, but this
> was actually not written anywhere in the common documentation about
> sending patches and replying to reviews. Add a section about trimming
> and interleaved replies.

Thx for doing this.

> [...]
> ---
>  Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst | 23 ++++++++++++++++++++
>  1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)

For some reason we have duplicate code^w documentation for this, hence
I'd say the same or a similar text should also be added to one of the
filed in Documentation/process/[0-9].*rst ; from a quick
Documentation/process/6.Followthrough.rst might be the best one.

Maybe in fact the text should move there and submitting-patches.rst
should have a much shorter version, as it's meant to be the terser of
the two docs about this.

> diff --git a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> index eac7167dce83..3e838da8822f 100644
> --- a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> @@ -326,6 +326,29 @@ explaining difference aganst previous submission (see
>  See Documentation/process/email-clients.rst for recommendations on email
>  clients and mailing list etiquette.
>  
> +Use trimmed interleaved replies in email discussions
> +----------------------------------------------------
> +Top-posting is strongly discouraged in Linux kernel development
> +discusions. Interleaved (or "inline") replies make conversations much

s/discusions/discussions/

> +easier to follow. For more details see:
> +https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
> +
> +As is frequently quoted on the mailing list:
> +
> +  A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post
> +  Q: Were do I find info about this thing called top-posting?
> +  A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> +  Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> +  A: Top-posting.
> +  Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> +
> +Similarly, please trim all unneeded quotations that aren't relevant
> +to your reply. This makes replies easier to find, and saves time and

Nitpicking, feel free to ignore: maybe "s/replies/responses/" or
something like that, as at least my stupid brain accidentally thought of
the email reply (as whole) when reading this for the first time.

> +space. For more details see: http://daringfireball.net/2007/07/on_top
> [...]

Ciao, Thorsten

Re: [PATCH] docs: submitting-patches: Discuss interleaved replies

[Kees Cook]

On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 11:21:36AM +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> On 10.05.23 20:34, Kees Cook wrote:
> > Top-posting has been strongly discouraged in Linux development, but this
> > was actually not written anywhere in the common documentation about
> > sending patches and replying to reviews. Add a section about trimming
> > and interleaved replies.
> 
> Thx for doing this.
> 
> > [...]
> > ---
> >  Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst | 23 ++++++++++++++++++++
> >  1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)
> 
> For some reason we have duplicate code^w documentation for this, hence
> I'd say the same or a similar text should also be added to one of the
> filed in Documentation/process/[0-9].*rst ; from a quick
> Documentation/process/6.Followthrough.rst might be the best one.
> 
> Maybe in fact the text should move there and submitting-patches.rst
> should have a much shorter version, as it's meant to be the terser of
> the two docs about this.

Hm, The place where it is mentioned is even shorter, so I kind of like
it in submittingpatches. But, I'm open to whatever seems best. I just
want to have a URL to point people at, and I'm usually pointing to
places in submittingpatches. :)

> 
> > diff --git a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> > index eac7167dce83..3e838da8822f 100644
> > --- a/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> > +++ b/Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst
> > @@ -326,6 +326,29 @@ explaining difference aganst previous submission (see
> >  See Documentation/process/email-clients.rst for recommendations on email
> >  clients and mailing list etiquette.
> >  
> > +Use trimmed interleaved replies in email discussions
> > +----------------------------------------------------
> > +Top-posting is strongly discouraged in Linux kernel development
> > +discusions. Interleaved (or "inline") replies make conversations much
> 
> s/discusions/discussions/

Agh, thanks. Fixed.

> 
> > +easier to follow. For more details see:
> > +https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
> > +
> > +As is frequently quoted on the mailing list:
> > +
> > +  A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post
> > +  Q: Were do I find info about this thing called top-posting?
> > +  A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > +  Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > +  A: Top-posting.
> > +  Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
> > +
> > +Similarly, please trim all unneeded quotations that aren't relevant
> > +to your reply. This makes replies easier to find, and saves time and
> 
> Nitpicking, feel free to ignore: maybe "s/replies/responses/" or
> something like that, as at least my stupid brain accidentally thought of
> the email reply (as whole) when reading this for the first time.

Yeah, that is more readable. Fixed.

> > +space. For more details see: http://daringfireball.net/2007/07/on_top
> > [...]
> 
> Ciao, Thorsten

Thanks!

-- 
Kees Cook

Re: [PATCH] docs: submitting-patches: Discuss interleaved replies

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

On 11.05.23 20:37, Kees Cook wrote:
> On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 11:21:36AM +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
>> On 10.05.23 20:34, Kees Cook wrote:
>>> Top-posting has been strongly discouraged in Linux development, but this
>>> was actually not written anywhere in the common documentation about
>>> sending patches and replying to reviews. Add a section about trimming
>>> and interleaved replies.
>>
>> Thx for doing this.
>>
>>> [...]
>>> ---
>>>  Documentation/process/submitting-patches.rst | 23 ++++++++++++++++++++
>>>  1 file changed, 23 insertions(+)
>>
>> For some reason we have duplicate code^w documentation for this, hence
>> I'd say the same or a similar text should also be added to one of the
>> filed in Documentation/process/[0-9].*rst ; from a quick
>> Documentation/process/6.Followthrough.rst might be the best one.
>>
>> Maybe in fact the text should move there and submitting-patches.rst
>> should have a much shorter version, as it's meant to be the terser of
>> the two docs about this.
> 
> Hm, The place where it is mentioned is even shorter,

Ohh, it is mentioned there already? I briefly looked, but had missed it.
Sorry. :-/

> so I kind of like
> it in submittingpatches. But, I'm open to whatever seems best.

Guess that is Jonathan's call to make. Your v2 patch to me looks a bit
like adding quite a bit of new and slow code to the fast path while
adjusting faster code in the slow path.

But the relation and interaction between those two texts in a bit messy
already, so maybe it doesn't matter that much.

Ciao, Thorsten