From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.kernel.org (aws-us-west-2-korg-mail-1.web.codeaurora.org [10.30.226.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EA22301010; Wed, 27 Aug 2025 12:48:16 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1756298896; cv=none; b=n44aAm4SlVTWcoeRTXjGTcSW34G9kPe+QkGf03vwsHLsSlKwUd+HkbAZdeidWRVKzxXugKzA5xva1lsAV5WmbhqmbHVIUnT6K6b/uscNKSbRNUWfc4iVuFwnrZnRPY9yRg++NCTRXY4AdzSbPjiNemKpJ5F8ibw9zBpIry2O0A4= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1756298896; c=relaxed/simple; bh=446GKTdq+eU8SJQb/MXBWHFElhnkbinBcXvD2n46AgI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=emZImyjenX2jcmif5errLMGXp4xhx+2c5KKb4drFyQBfsziofI6sfcgjA16EbJPS1HT4973vENty1roaqojGNVuOBD2IhK43A5eCni/vX0s4id5wT1iR+HBZUhB3y59GhlBLWf3gznL6IDuJKpjS2KTlnP7OrbT20TOnCuotCyQ= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b=T9pvEGnZ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=10.30.226.201 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="T9pvEGnZ" Received: by smtp.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A45E3C4CEEB; Wed, 27 Aug 2025 12:48:13 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1756298896; bh=446GKTdq+eU8SJQb/MXBWHFElhnkbinBcXvD2n46AgI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=T9pvEGnZaV0N2O+kDhv8eOxMG//LUL0MBscniqDhxYB2HeHz0UZ2nA59xykj6oNxt oY3ops7GHLNecKcwnHfwPcEoLogLQhu3Itv585rf+Te6HwBxpeOODC8oZ9EyY2rN7n K8RY7WcqioT3zOtbfACpaJUUYH2qmif4eeCa8h+CJt26Jgg/v6HpoLob8OxPgA//RC SuQYa4ygss8n3JyCJ6KXYPZQKvnZZ0A8iCS6BYKWDfGOpT6v4wwT6fUaJPj8j6/duz CqmYeQ8jwevZ4odvuZmM50KrM4UxB6JIc2vKMMKzJBQNR1QpxcQpElIM/CgfuMeyd0 PbjQGS//T5nZQ== Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2025 14:48:10 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: Jonathan Corbet Cc: Bagas Sanjaya , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Linux Documentation , Linux Kernel Workflows , Jonathan =?UTF-8?B?TmV1c2Now6RmZXI=?= , Fox Foster , Federico Vaga , Randy Dunlap , Stephen Rothwell , Konstantin Ryabitsev , Matthew Wilcox Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] Documentation: management-style: Reword "had better known the details" phrase Message-ID: <20250827144757.26599d50@foz.lan> In-Reply-To: <877byp9f63.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> References: <20250827044848.17374-1-bagasdotme@gmail.com> <87wm6p9v8l.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> <20250827113312.62162725@foz.lan> <877byp9f63.fsf@trenco.lwn.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 4.3.1 (GTK 3.24.49; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Em Wed, 27 Aug 2025 05:28:52 -0600 Jonathan Corbet escreveu: > Mauro Carvalho Chehab writes: > > > As a non-native English speaker, "had better know" looks really > > weird on my eyes, as, at least for me, "know" is a verb. > > > > Heh, I just discovered today by looking on a dictionary: > > > > https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/know > > > > That know can informally be used as a noun (a shortcut for > > knowledge?). > > "know" is a verb as used in the sentence in question too. That's new to me. I would expect that a verb locution like that to have the final verb ending with -ing, written in the past participle, or have "to" before it. After looking for this particular grammatical construction, it seems that "had better" is an exception: https://teachtranslatetravelrepeat.com/semi-modal-verbs-had-better/ where the main verb remains in infinitive without "to" prefix. > > For me as a non-native English speaker, when one writes: > > > > They "most likely know" (know here is a verb) > > > > or: > > They "had better knowledge" (knowledge is a name) > > > > Things become clearer. > > But neither of those say the same thing. Read "had better know" as > "really should know" and you get a lot closer. I guess I didn't realize > that it was such a strange construction. I bet very few non-native English speaker developers would understand it like that. Thanks, Mauro