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[159.2.239.150]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-940f05b20e0sm810207185a.3.2026.10.26.15.46.12 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 26 Oct 2026 15:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jgg by wakko with local (Exim 4.97) (envelope-from ) id 1xLTSF-000000087nJ-1Z9f; Mon, 26 Oct 2026 19:46:11 -0300 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2026 19:46:11 -0300 From: Jason Gunthorpe To: Greg Kroah-Hartman Cc: Leon Romanovsky , Alex Williamson , Uwe =?utf-8?Q?Kleine-K=C3=B6nig?= , Armin Wolf , David Lechner , Danilo Krummrich , Luis Chamberlain , Petr Pavlu , Daniel Gomez , Sami Tolvanen , Aaron Tomlin , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , Randy Dunlap , "Rafael J. Wysocki" , Steven Rostedt , Masami Hiramatsu , Mathieu Desnoyers , Bradley Morgan , Aleksandr Nogikh , linux-modules@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, driver-core@lists.linux.dev, linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Johan Hovold , Richard Weinberger , Thierry Reding , Bjorn Helgaas , linux-pci@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 0/3] driver core: add TAINT_FORCED_BIND for when userspace manually messes with devices and drivers Message-ID: <20261026224611.GB1685504@ziepe.ca> References: <9bd3a34b-5e98-4038-80d6-da2c3b1948dd@gmx.de> <2026092321-province-yearly-44aa@gregkh> <2026092348-victory-erased-0e5a@gregkh> <20261023181326.0dc2f7ed@shazbot.org> <20261026122243.GA28851@unreal> <20261026184312.GA1685504@ziepe.ca> <2026102604-tint-catcall-433e@gregkh> X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2026102604-tint-catcall-433e@gregkh> On Mon, Oct 26, 2026 at 09:05:06PM +0100, Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > On Mon, Oct 26, 2026 at 03:43:12PM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2026 at 02:22:43PM +0200, Leon Romanovsky wrote: > > > > > This is needed for two reasons: to save hardware and software resources > > > when creating a large number of VFs, and to allow the PCI config space to > > > be configured *before* the driver starts using it. > > > > > > There is no in-kernel alternative. > > > > Having userspace involved in driver binding has also always been the > > plan for confidential computing needs. We cannot have a device driver > > bound across some of the HW transitions like TDISP shared/private, so > > there has always been an expectation of bind/unbind. > > What, why? What forces that decision? What's wrong with the proper > driver for the hardware being bound automatically to the device? It would be a proper driver, with a real match. I would expect this to be done with sysfs driver_probe, which is like bind, except it doesn't override the matches, AFAIK. There are two sort of related isues. Userspace is in charge of sequencing the new PCI features like link encryption and TDISP. They have complex authentication policies tied to them so the kernel can't reasonably do it. These features change how the CPU does address translation, effectively it adds/removes the iommu - and that can't be changed while the DMA API is active or it breaks every translation in effect. So.. We need a gap a system boot when the driver is not bound so the PCI stuff can be done prior to driver_probe, and a gap if there is a PCIe error of some kind to do error recovery and go back to the start to reauthenticate and reload. > > For this case the existing sysf drivers_probe is good enough for bind, > > but we must have taint-free unbind for PCI devices too. > > Why? See above. That should be the easiest thing to ask for! PCI is hot plug, disabling unbind makes zero sense from any way you look at it. > > I think this patch should be reverted ASAP, it is a pretty major > > regression for a lot of users. > > But this use case hasn't even happened yet, so what would regress? I'm reflecting the other commentators, I care about VFIO too. I think tainting every hypervisor is unacceptable. But for CC I find myself one of the maintainers for that now and many people have been diligently working on this bind/unbind direction for a long time now. If it goes away I have no idea what could replace it. Jason