From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from fhigh-b1-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh-b1-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A82BE64; Fri, 24 Apr 2026 01:03:56 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.152 ARC-Seal:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776992638; cv=none; b=QrW9YSKZ8b7qxV+NsG0BBG9gLdA6NBonr0BRjsB/8YtXVmQLqs3sb7YqRplZEfCLOvEGnzQyeM0xTamsGmTNlDABIQ8YOPvf30stRaAGlZ54JvDGCGeVxWnpTZ2zvmG3XHRMY7zGVbGNFGtPXQFIRQAfnFX2AK/3+ETagslIx7Y= ARC-Message-Signature:i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=subspace.kernel.org; s=arc-20240116; t=1776992638; c=relaxed/simple; bh=uT7gY4BRtjgaPX9PaajJO75AEADj3vGoYf34NRUkepE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=jRAbaIutzR3B0KLS/U3hT1RlfCJC1jusqc0MVqHZmSSOTMUVocwrNzUZi9LF5D+J89kha/8MYoMo22vSNbZC4zXgKciZAIJHePUff7aDBw4Z9cewA8cKeYyIXKYrlwWYQ8y5tQBaIPr0m2sU/ajosjqjwf/Y/Sc7pBIdaEuRzFE= ARC-Authentication-Results:i=1; smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=linux-m68k.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-m68k.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b=DkkSk2sZ; arc=none smtp.client-ip=202.12.124.152 Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=linux-m68k.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-m68k.org Authentication-Results: smtp.subspace.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="DkkSk2sZ" Received: from phl-compute-02.internal (phl-compute-02.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailfhigh.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B767A0184; Thu, 23 Apr 2026 21:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-frontend-04 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-02.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 23 Apr 2026 21:03:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t= 1776992634; x=1777079034; bh=rXMg7ku8R+JFnmla+6SGcWBeA0b7hTg/AD+ QEyM9OnE=; b=DkkSk2sZMghdgvHOCh2vJqPFixGiQYiF/pPQBAIBhyDG/jCucsB lq7BJofCWG0pYPqhzIt4NP54Q0owled+gydYNhb+IPkFrxh1D2x7I/hcNTUWHCip sj97mQSBxopfg74854n+KEuzPhM5Fn7Rzc+UT0R+R264Ai4n3Tc/wHVXKmTlhNZ6 eLBdD/JaiwjHQ2zp8qR9GukdmSzujQpCK+t/03QVk67/i6YCRipuwiNmRDLGBxrn dT7W443tTovkKwQY+nUSyEVqXak8aBQIUzAKw7OpWc73fFEo5Nbdcnx7DuXAcIq5 wNSmp5+oQav6nZgAPQE+6YML0n+Oo0RHg0w== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefhedrtddtgdeikeeiiecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpeffhffvvefujgfkfhggtgesthdtredttddtvdenucfhrhhomhephfhinhhnucfvhhgr ihhnuceofhhthhgrihhnsehlihhnuhigqdhmieekkhdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepleeuheelheekgfeuvedtveetjeekhfffkeeffffftdfgjeevkeegfedvueehueel necuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepfhhthh grihhnsehlihhnuhigqdhmieekkhdrohhrghdpnhgspghrtghpthhtohepudekpdhmohgu vgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopehkuhgsrgeskhgvrhhnvghlrdhorhhgpdhrtg hpthhtohepghhlrghusghithiisehphhihshhikhdrfhhuqdgsvghrlhhinhdruggvpdhr tghpthhtohepuggrnhhivghlsedtgidtfhdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehgvggvrhhtse hlihhnuhigqdhmieekkhdrohhrghdprhgtphhtthhopegrnhgurhgvfieslhhunhhnrdgt hhdprhgtphhtthhopegrnhgurhgvfidonhgvthguvghvsehluhhnnhdrtghhpdhrtghpth htohepuggrvhgvmhesuggrvhgvmhhlohhfthdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopegvughumhgr iigvthesghhoohhglhgvrdgtohhmpdhrtghpthhtohepphgrsggvnhhisehrvgguhhgrth drtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i58a146ae:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 23 Apr 2026 21:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 11:04:02 +1000 (AEST) From: Finn Thain To: Jakub Kicinski cc: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , Daniel Palmer , Geert Uytterhoeven , Andrew Lunn , Andrew Lunn , "David S. Miller" , Eric Dumazet , Paolo Abeni , Simon Horman , Jonathan Corbet , Shuah Khan , Michael Fritscher , Byron Stanoszek , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-m68k Subject: Re: [PATCH net v2 10/15] drivers: net: cirrus: mac89x0: Remove this driver In-Reply-To: <20260423150240.07c350a2@kernel.org> Message-ID: <31926a28-658a-1df9-d5bc-2b010891e7e7@linux-m68k.org> References: <20260422-v7-0-0-net-next-driver-removal-v1-v2-0-08a5b59784d5@lunn.ch> <20260422-v7-0-0-net-next-driver-removal-v1-v2-10-08a5b59784d5@lunn.ch> <20260423150240.07c350a2@kernel.org> Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, 23 Apr 2026, Jakub Kicinski wrote: > We want to be welcoming in the community. But being a part of the > community means participating in _work_. > The work of testing drivers requires that maintainers have ready access to actual hardware. Behavioural simulation like QEMU does not cut it. Therefore, it sounds like you're going to need someone with actual clout to mandate that drivers must have maintainers and those maintainers must have access to working hardware, or those drivers get placed on a removal schedule along with _every_ other orphaned module across the entire tree. That way, you get to chase _all_ freeloaders regardless of whether they are unpaid enthusiasts or foundation sponsors. Surely you'd find out what "welcoming" really means -- but you would get to remove a _lot_ of code. Far more likely, you'd find out that the typical Linux user is actually a retro computing enthusiast because he's using some device that's over 5 years old, and the employer of the maintainer of the relevant driver got assigned to something more profitable years ago and all their old hardware got tossed out in the last office move. (What was that saying about those who live in silica houses?) Anyway, I think there is a better way. Let's score every module based on cost/benefit to the "community". We can use retail sales volume as a proxy for the former quantity (in unadjusted dollars) and use module size (in lines of code) as proxy for the latter. If nothing else, that would show us which modules are more or less valuable to the community, relative to the average module.