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Sat, 09 Aug 2025 09:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.138.10.6] ([89.187.178.201]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7e840d96d78sm64740685a.3.2025.08.09.09.53.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Aug 2025 09:53:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6cbaa3a3-694e-4951-abb3-b88e6c9d6638@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 12:53:09 -0400 Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 00/16] dma-mapping: migrate to physical address-based API To: Jason Gunthorpe , Marek Szyprowski Cc: Leon Romanovsky , Abdiel Janulgue , Alexander Potapenko , Alex Gaynor , Andrew Morton , Christoph Hellwig , Danilo Krummrich , iommu@lists.linux.dev, Jason Wang , Jens Axboe , Joerg Roedel , Jonathan Corbet , Juergen Gross , kasan-dev@googlegroups.com, Keith Busch , linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Madhavan Srinivasan , Masami Hiramatsu , Michael Ellerman , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Miguel Ojeda , Robin Murphy , rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, Sagi Grimberg , Stefano Stabellini , Steven Rostedt , virtualization@lists.linux.dev, Will Deacon , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org References: <20250807141929.GN184255@nvidia.com> <20250809133454.GP184255@nvidia.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Demi Marie Obenour Autocrypt: addr=demiobenour@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBFp+A0oBEADffj6anl9/BHhUSxGTICeVl2tob7hPDdhHNgPR4C8xlYt5q49yB+l2nipd aq+4Gk6FZfqC825TKl7eRpUjMriwle4r3R0ydSIGcy4M6eb0IcxmuPYfbWpr/si88QKgyGSV Z7GeNW1UnzTdhYHuFlk8dBSmB1fzhEYEk0RcJqg4AKoq6/3/UorR+FaSuVwT7rqzGrTlscnT DlPWgRzrQ3jssesI7sZLm82E3pJSgaUoCdCOlL7MMPCJwI8JpPlBedRpe9tfVyfu3euTPLPx wcV3L/cfWPGSL4PofBtB8NUU6QwYiQ9Hzx4xOyn67zW73/G0Q2vPPRst8LBDqlxLjbtx/WLR 6h3nBc3eyuZ+q62HS1pJ5EvUT1vjyJ1ySrqtUXWQ4XlZyoEFUfpJxJoN0A9HCxmHGVckzTRl 5FMWo8TCniHynNXsBtDQbabt7aNEOaAJdE7to0AH3T/Bvwzcp0ZJtBk0EM6YeMLtotUut7h2 Bkg1b//r6bTBswMBXVJ5H44Qf0+eKeUg7whSC9qpYOzzrm7+0r9F5u3qF8ZTx55TJc2g656C 9a1P1MYVysLvkLvS4H+crmxA/i08Tc1h+x9RRvqba4lSzZ6/Tmt60DPM5Sc4R0nSm9BBff0N m0bSNRS8InXdO1Aq3362QKX2NOwcL5YaStwODNyZUqF7izjK4QARAQABzTxEZW1pIE1hcmll IE9iZW5vdXIgKGxvdmVyIG9mIGNvZGluZykgPGRlbWlvYmVub3VyQGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwXgE EwECACIFAlp+A0oCGwMGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJELKItV//nCLBhr8Q AK/xrb4wyi71xII2hkFBpT59ObLN+32FQT7R3lbZRjVFjc6yMUjOb1H/hJVxx+yo5gsSj5LS 9AwggioUSrcUKldfA/PKKai2mzTlUDxTcF3vKx6iMXKA6AqwAw4B57ZEJoMM6egm57TV19kz PMc879NV2nc6+elaKl+/kbVeD3qvBuEwsTe2Do3HAAdrfUG/j9erwIk6gha/Hp9yZlCnPTX+ VK+xifQqt8RtMqS5R/S8z0msJMI/ajNU03kFjOpqrYziv6OZLJ5cuKb3bZU5aoaRQRDzkFIR 6aqtFLTohTo20QywXwRa39uFaOT/0YMpNyel0kdOszFOykTEGI2u+kja35g9TkH90kkBTG+a EWttIht0Hy6YFmwjcAxisSakBuHnHuMSOiyRQLu43ej2+mDWgItLZ48Mu0C3IG1seeQDjEYP tqvyZ6bGkf2Vj+L6wLoLLIhRZxQOedqArIk/Sb2SzQYuxN44IDRt+3ZcDqsPppoKcxSyd1Ny 2tpvjYJXlfKmOYLhTWs8nwlAlSHX/c/jz/ywwf7eSvGknToo1Y0VpRtoxMaKW1nvH0OeCSVJ itfRP7YbiRVc2aNqWPCSgtqHAuVraBRbAFLKh9d2rKFB3BmynTUpc1BQLJP8+D5oNyb8Ts4x Xd3iV/uD8JLGJfYZIR7oGWFLP4uZ3tkneDfYzsFNBFp+A0oBEAC9ynZI9LU+uJkMeEJeJyQ/ 8VFkCJQPQZEsIGzOTlPnwvVna0AS86n2Z+rK7R/usYs5iJCZ55/JISWd8xD57ue0eB47bcJv VqGlObI2DEG8TwaW0O0duRhDgzMEL4t1KdRAepIESBEA/iPpI4gfUbVEIEQuqdqQyO4GAe+M kD0Hy5JH/0qgFmbaSegNTdQg5iqYjRZ3ttiswalql1/iSyv1WYeC1OAs+2BLOAT2NEggSiVO txEfgewsQtCWi8H1SoirakIfo45Hz0tk/Ad9ZWh2PvOGt97Ka85o4TLJxgJJqGEnqcFUZnJJ riwoaRIS8N2C8/nEM53jb1sH0gYddMU3QxY7dYNLIUrRKQeNkF30dK7V6JRH7pleRlf+wQcN fRAIUrNlatj9TxwivQrKnC9aIFFHEy/0mAgtrQShcMRmMgVlRoOA5B8RTulRLCmkafvwuhs6 dCxN0GNAORIVVFxjx9Vn7OqYPgwiofZ6SbEl0hgPyWBQvE85klFLZLoj7p+joDY1XNQztmfA rnJ9x+YV4igjWImINAZSlmEcYtd+xy3Li/8oeYDAqrsnrOjb+WvGhCykJk4urBog2LNtcyCj kTs7F+WeXGUo0NDhbd3Z6AyFfqeF7uJ3D5hlpX2nI9no/ugPrrTVoVZAgrrnNz0iZG2DVx46 x913pVKHl5mlYQARAQABwsFfBBgBAgAJBQJafgNKAhsMAAoJELKItV//nCLBwNIP/AiIHE8b oIqReFQyaMzxq6lE4YZCZNj65B/nkDOvodSiwfwjjVVE2V3iEzxMHbgyTCGA67+Bo/d5aQGj gn0TPtsGzelyQHipaUzEyrsceUGWYoKXYyVWKEfyh0cDfnd9diAm3VeNqchtcMpoehETH8fr RHnJdBcjf112PzQSdKC6kqU0Q196c4Vp5HDOQfNiDnTf7gZSj0BraHOByy9LEDCLhQiCmr+2 E0rW4tBtDAn2HkT9uf32ZGqJCn1O+2uVfFhGu6vPE5qkqrbSE8TG+03H8ecU2q50zgHWPdHM OBvy3EhzfAh2VmOSTcRK+tSUe/u3wdLRDPwv/DTzGI36Kgky9MsDC5gpIwNbOJP2G/q1wT1o Gkw4IXfWv2ufWiXqJ+k7HEi2N1sree7Dy9KBCqb+ca1vFhYPDJfhP75I/VnzHVssZ/rYZ9+5 1yDoUABoNdJNSGUYl+Yh9Pw9pE3Kt4EFzUlFZWbE4xKL/NPno+z4J9aWemLLszcYz/u3XnbO vUSQHSrmfOzX3cV4yfmjM5lewgSstoxGyTx2M8enslgdXhPthZlDnTnOT+C+OTsh8+m5tos8 HQjaPM01MKBiAqdPgksm1wu2DrrwUi6ChRVTUBcj6+/9IJ81H2P2gJk3Ls3AVIxIffLoY34E +MYSfkEjBz0E8CLOcAw7JIwAaeBT In-Reply-To: <20250809133454.GP184255@nvidia.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------ANOjCz5i1k7QI0nCYN2dEm0B" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------ANOjCz5i1k7QI0nCYN2dEm0B Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------Tcin0j6gTuXw4zaLOgBCLymL"; protected-headers="v1" From: Demi Marie Obenour To: Jason Gunthorpe , Marek Szyprowski Cc: Leon Romanovsky , Abdiel Janulgue , Alexander Potapenko , Alex Gaynor , Andrew Morton , Christoph Hellwig , Danilo Krummrich , iommu@lists.linux.dev, Jason Wang , Jens Axboe , Joerg Roedel , Jonathan Corbet , Juergen Gross , kasan-dev@googlegroups.com, Keith Busch , linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-trace-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Madhavan Srinivasan , Masami Hiramatsu , Michael Ellerman , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Miguel Ojeda , Robin Murphy , rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, Sagi Grimberg , Stefano Stabellini , Steven Rostedt , virtualization@lists.linux.dev, Will Deacon , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org Message-ID: <6cbaa3a3-694e-4951-abb3-b88e6c9d6638@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 00/16] dma-mapping: migrate to physical address-based API References: <20250807141929.GN184255@nvidia.com> <20250809133454.GP184255@nvidia.com> In-Reply-To: <20250809133454.GP184255@nvidia.com> Autocrypt-Gossip: addr=jgross@suse.com; keydata= xsBNBFOMcBYBCACgGjqjoGvbEouQZw/ToiBg9W98AlM2QHV+iNHsEs7kxWhKMjrioyspZKOB ycWxw3ie3j9uvg9EOB3aN4xiTv4qbnGiTr3oJhkB1gsb6ToJQZ8uxGq2kaV2KL9650I1SJve dYm8Of8Zd621lSmoKOwlNClALZNew72NjJLEzTalU1OdT7/i1TXkH09XSSI8mEQ/ouNcMvIJ NwQpd369y9bfIhWUiVXEK7MlRgUG6MvIj6Y3Am/BBLUVbDa4+gmzDC9ezlZkTZG2t14zWPvx XP3FAp2pkW0xqG7/377qptDmrk42GlSKN4z76ELnLxussxc7I2hx18NUcbP8+uty4bMxABEB AAHNH0p1ZXJnZW4gR3Jvc3MgPGpncm9zc0BzdXNlLmNvbT7CwHkEEwECACMFAlOMcK8CGwMH CwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCw3p3WKL8TL8eZB/9G0juS/kDY9LhEXseh mE9U+iA1VsLhgDqVbsOtZ/S14LRFHczNd/Lqkn7souCSoyWsBs3/wO+OjPvxf7m+Ef+sMtr0 G5lCWEWa9wa0IXx5HRPW/ScL+e4AVUbL7rurYMfwCzco+7TfjhMEOkC+va5gzi1KrErgNRHH kg3PhlnRY0Udyqx++UYkAsN4TQuEhNN32MvN0Np3WlBJOgKcuXpIElmMM5f1BBzJSKBkW0Jc Wy3h2Wy912vHKpPV/Xv7ZwVJ27v7KcuZcErtptDevAljxJtE7aJG6WiBzm+v9EswyWxwMCIO RoVBYuiocc51872tRGywc03xaQydB+9R7BHPzsBNBFOMcBYBCADLMfoA44MwGOB9YT1V4KCy vAfd7E0BTfaAurbG+Olacciz3yd09QOmejFZC6AnoykydyvTFLAWYcSCdISMr88COmmCbJzn sHAogjexXiif6ANUUlHpjxlHCCcELmZUzomNDnEOTxZFeWMTFF9Rf2k2F0Tl4E5kmsNGgtSa aMO0rNZoOEiD/7UfPP3dfh8JCQ1VtUUsQtT1sxos8Eb/HmriJhnaTZ7Hp3jtgTVkV0ybpgFg w6WMaRkrBh17mV0z2ajjmabB7SJxcouSkR0hcpNl4oM74d2/VqoW4BxxxOD1FcNCObCELfIS auZx+XT6s+CE7Qi/c44ibBMR7hyjdzWbABEBAAHCwF8EGAECAAkFAlOMcBYCGwwACgkQsN6d 1ii/Ey9D+Af/WFr3q+bg/8v5tCknCtn92d5lyYTBNt7xgWzDZX8G6/pngzKyWfedArllp0Pn fgIXtMNV+3t8Li1Tg843EXkP7+2+CQ98MB8XvvPLYAfW8nNDV85TyVgWlldNcgdv7nn1Sq8g HwB2BHdIAkYce3hEoDQXt/mKlgEGsLpzJcnLKimtPXQQy9TxUaLBe9PInPd+Ohix0XOlY+Uk QFEx50Ki3rSDl2Zt2tnkNYKUCvTJq7jvOlaPd6d/W0tZqpyy7KVay+K4aMobDsodB3dvEAs6 ScCnh03dDAFgIq5nsB11j3KPKdVoPlfucX2c7kGNH+LUMbzqV6beIENfNexkOfxHfw== --------------Tcin0j6gTuXw4zaLOgBCLymL Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------XI3qD7GRJn9UB00QQXegC2mE" --------------XI3qD7GRJn9UB00QQXegC2mE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 8/9/25 09:34, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > On Fri, Aug 08, 2025 at 08:51:08PM +0200, Marek Szyprowski wrote: >> First - basing the=C2=A0API on the phys_addr_t. >> >> Page based API had the advantage that it was really hard to abuse it a= nd=20 >> call for something that is not 'a normal RAM'.=20 >=20 > This is not true anymore. Today we have ZONE_DEVICE as a struct page > type with a whole bunch of non-dram sub-types: >=20 > enum memory_type { > /* 0 is reserved to catch uninitialized type fields */ > MEMORY_DEVICE_PRIVATE =3D 1, > MEMORY_DEVICE_COHERENT, > MEMORY_DEVICE_FS_DAX, > MEMORY_DEVICE_GENERIC, > MEMORY_DEVICE_PCI_P2PDMA, > }; >=20 > Few of which are kmappable/page_to_virtable() in a way that is useful > for the DMA API. >=20 > DMA API sort of ignores all of this and relies on the caller to not > pass in an incorrect struct page. eg we rely on things like the block > stack to do the right stuff when a MEMORY_DEVICE_PCI_P2PDMA is present > in a bio_vec. >=20 > Which is not really fundamentally different from just using > phys_addr_t in the first place. >=20 > Sure, this was a stronger argument when this stuff was originally > written, before ZONE_DEVICE was invented. >=20 >> I initially though that phys_addr_t based API will somehow simplify >> arch specific implementation, as some of them indeed rely on >> phys_addr_t internally, but I missed other things pointed by >> Robin. Do we have here any alternative? >=20 > I think it is less of a code simplification, more as a reduction in > conceptual load. When we can say directly there is no struct page type > anyhwere in the DMA API layers then we only have to reason about > kmap/phys_to_virt compatibly. >=20 > This is also a weaker overall requirement than needing an actual > struct page which allows optimizing other parts of the kernel. Like we > aren't forced to create MEMORY_DEVICE_PCI_P2PDMA stuct pages just to > use the dma api. >=20 > Again, any place in the kernel we can get rid of struct page the > smoother the road will be for the MM side struct page restructuring. >=20 > For example one of the bigger eventual goes here is to make a bio_vec > store phys_addr_t, not struct page pointers. >=20 > DMA API is not alone here, we have been de-struct-paging the kernel > for a long time now: >=20 > netdev: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20250609043225.77229-1-byungch= ul@sk.com/ > slab: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20211201181510.18784-1-vbabka@su= se.cz/ > iommmu: https://lore.kernel.org/all/0-v4-c8663abbb606+3f7-iommu_pages_j= gg@nvidia.com/ > page tables: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-mm/20230731170332.69404-1-vi= shal.moola@gmail.com/ > zswap: https://lore.kernel.org/all/20241216150450.1228021-1-42.hyeyoo@g= mail.com/ >=20 > With a long term goal that struct page only exists for legacy code, > and is maybe entirely compiled out of modern server kernels. Why just server kernels? 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