From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EAE3C77B61 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 22:29:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S229668AbjDMW36 (ORCPT ); Thu, 13 Apr 2023 18:29:58 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:45670 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229530AbjDMW3z (ORCPT ); Thu, 13 Apr 2023 18:29:55 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [170.10.133.124]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A28B1902D for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:29:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1681424944; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=2DXFP3dB1bKLbWwK18eQnwRV9pZt3DISx+mq7u3Xyg4=; b=Q1lTe/rJFJn09Gbp34WizuUPpx2RD38hw4hv951fynPdjmznpFtY1Qdj+oamX5UGNLZFn9 tNOzE8XGqDr4l+JCnTU7OjOeead0lWCL8W9jKdMUyjMIl37kKkSymxVsThW/MH/WGiAh4Y lUeeA5LqjCszqMgh+pwjwTqzDV9iGrk= Received: from mail-ed1-f71.google.com (mail-ed1-f71.google.com [209.85.208.71]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id us-mta-196-Pn31giUhMzKCPoxxcn6jhQ-1; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 18:29:03 -0400 X-MC-Unique: Pn31giUhMzKCPoxxcn6jhQ-1 Received: by mail-ed1-f71.google.com with SMTP id a5-20020a509e85000000b0050504899d78so3479366edf.16 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:29:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681424942; x=1684016942; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2DXFP3dB1bKLbWwK18eQnwRV9pZt3DISx+mq7u3Xyg4=; b=LZZWm0Pwt3XFtu74bdiqFl7fPeQp7AaPnwo5TcC8lYkwarkQ/sEUXcXiJ5xf+bTrIG r8z/Pd2DkZfVelEaLjHhwQvby7SlcVMGMbPR428Iigfz5wZ7Ld67cgZqAWnQr4BJMbq8 CuEubSfOyrG2/sln5CDLgK+Y83IXqZihX42o5O7m0lRxakpJsi+cse8o5VxeTS+bybYl kYA/L5nef/oCAKL2/EtbnTVZ9xgWhJ3W097rjNhk/qOe3JckvW2QjjpMWjfrBssXTQgu vWpArtIuRqYeehJbb/xY2VCIvJJ+ZqqU07/SXITZFkU74dadcE438urMRrsRlNLElt9o 7NKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9ewI0GO07ZGHxfxS8Mk8p8mvOwODmewY2udyqxPTQ6es9rlkdAf Rwgv1HIE2qS8witrqcUXp6wYLgtGJCCI5+D/beCuYfSlKn6Gs9K8+us/f7jE3EeEwWk5nsofxYv KJd0682cpkIfLvfsZ2IQm X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:80cd:b0:94e:d5d7:7bfb with SMTP id a13-20020a17090680cd00b0094ed5d77bfbmr922181ejx.40.1681424941466; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:29:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZoLl7yF+5cXOYIhLuGb0DLXmWW4xsCqLqX6l6ZjfH+FEUZNnp0roFCxzbVj/FQJmpn/sASRA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:80cd:b0:94e:d5d7:7bfb with SMTP id a13-20020a17090680cd00b0094ed5d77bfbmr922151ejx.40.1681424940573; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk ([2a0c:4d80:42:443::2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id de34-20020a1709069be200b0094e8b90bbccsm1540519ejc.221.2023.04.13.15.29.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 78700AA7C0F; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 00:28:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Kal Cutter Conley Cc: Maciej Fijalkowski , =?utf-8?B?QmrDtnJu?= =?utf-8?B?IFTDtnBlbA==?= , Magnus Karlsson , Jonathan Lemon , "David S. Miller" , Eric Dumazet , Jakub Kicinski , Paolo Abeni , Jonathan Corbet , Alexei Starovoitov , Daniel Borkmann , Jesper Dangaard Brouer , John Fastabend , netdev@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH bpf-next v3 1/3] xsk: Support UMEM chunk_size > PAGE_SIZE In-Reply-To: References: <20230406130205.49996-1-kal.conley@dectris.com> <20230406130205.49996-2-kal.conley@dectris.com> <87sfdckgaa.fsf@toke.dk> <875ya12phx.fsf@toke.dk> <87ile011kz.fsf@toke.dk> <87o7nrzeww.fsf@toke.dk> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 00:28:59 +0200 Message-ID: <87edonzaac.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org Kal Cutter Conley writes: >> "More annoying" is not a great argument, though. You're basically saying >> "please complicate your code so I don't have to complicate mine". And >> since kernel API is essentially frozen forever, adding more of them >> carries a pretty high cost, which is why kernel developers tend not to >> be easily swayed by convenience arguments (if all you want is a more >> convenient API, just build one on top of the kernel primitives and wrap >> it into a library). > > I was trying to make a fair comparison from the user's perspective > between having to allocate huge pages and deal with discontiguous > buffers. That was all. > > I think the "your code" distinction is a bit harsh. The kernel is a > community project. Why isn't it "our" code? I am trying to add a > feature that I think is generally useful to people. The kernel only > exists to serve its users. Oh, I'm sorry if that came across as harsh, that was not my intention! I was certainly not trying to make a "you vs us" distinction; I was just trying to explain why making changes on the kernel side carries a higher cost than an equivalent (or even slightly more complex) change on the userspace side, because of the UAPI consideration. > I believe I am doing more good than harm sending these patches. I don't think so! You've certainly sparked a discussion, that is good :) -Toke