From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_RED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D1EC433ED for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 07:41:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2D9611ED for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 07:41:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S235379AbhEQHmo (ORCPT ); Mon, 17 May 2021 03:42:44 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:60416 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S235382AbhEQHmN (ORCPT ); Mon, 17 May 2021 03:42:13 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x635.google.com (mail-ej1-x635.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::635]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53509C061760 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 00:40:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x635.google.com with SMTP id k14so4204452eji.2 for ; Mon, 17 May 2021 00:40:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ffwll.ch; s=google; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to; bh=B8FVvdrYV7pRJNP/rUxfxaSr7LQz2pvmtedFAKqPA5s=; b=CSFvg+tjQEVYhc705mOMRwpzk8Gqt8xv+H0Ikr17UUGkrdXsoTWL0M/0aboeQW7SL0 WGnU4bdI0p5NbtPBxoIeo/1cgqFGkNieW6G7xHDeOo+2I+gaAhQxABCrVRSNg5NWzPMn 3o9RmP2fWWxIhM54sngD7vFBAb3B0wP539qc0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-disposition :in-reply-to; bh=B8FVvdrYV7pRJNP/rUxfxaSr7LQz2pvmtedFAKqPA5s=; b=O/bg1khaEaVOnxd3FgG2g8vpxninnS+7th7WGzZGcP94bBsuQ0G4RhiWzYPS3oQUz6 ltAWfgxwdjCds7uen+sCc2rO1AOdjZGw6XXj4hHgFv0Um+2zuKVX2c9H7ZrF6oiqxKS6 0fjlE+j85XiFp+tNGFBLNO0hyyoXgTiLA9GCxPuGYqmwGZi1z4EuTpGj7UNudFWW/muA 4u3hOztYkysy6RpT1cf0KiPd5RAztYtrYytQSwJc9eNeZXcoymxY6xNSYQqLq1liyglP Hdih1e1LbjX+oxMQcSNKJYFm3tP8jCljMq/5K2KHO9cJsTwJX0EX6s5seU3NHPyU7gCB VsHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532aVxhD5JRVbzymGmh3cjwEGtJKi5zSAxVAfvQZibaEe+hq6B5t ycoIMoNg6CstOh5wW/ZlLBQc32DePerb9A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxsNKvac4CwIYd6QJnPC6F9qO8I0E39FRtgpcmyeUqnVrz/aM5qdvLz6CPniRZqwmrChq++FA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:cb1:: with SMTP id k17mr60265688ejh.307.1621237256090; Mon, 17 May 2021 00:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phenom.ffwll.local ([2a02:168:57f4:0:efd0:b9e5:5ae6:c2fa]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p14sm6814861ejz.51.2021.05.17.00.40.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 17 May 2021 00:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 May 2021 09:40:53 +0200 From: Daniel Vetter To: Arnd Bergmann , Dave Airlie Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , Maciej Kwapulinski , Jonathan Corbet , Derek Kiernan , Dragan Cvetic , Andy Shevchenko , Linux Kernel Mailing List , "open list:DOCUMENTATION" , DRI Development Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 00/14] Driver of Intel(R) Gaussian & Neural Accelerator Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Arnd Bergmann , Dave Airlie , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Maciej Kwapulinski , Jonathan Corbet , Derek Kiernan , Dragan Cvetic , Andy Shevchenko , Linux Kernel Mailing List , "open list:DOCUMENTATION" , DRI Development References: <20210513110040.2268-1-maciej.kwapulinski@linux.intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Operating-System: Linux phenom 5.10.32scarlett+ Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-doc@vger.kernel.org On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 11:00:38AM +0200, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 10:34 AM Greg Kroah-Hartman > wrote: > > On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 01:00:26PM +0200, Maciej Kwapulinski wrote: > > > Dear kernel maintainers, > > > > > > This submission is a kernel driver to support Intel(R) Gaussian & Neural > > > Accelerator (Intel(R) GNA). Intel(R) GNA is a PCI-based neural co-processor > > > available on multiple Intel platforms. AI developers and users can offload > > > continuous inference workloads to an Intel(R) GNA device in order to free > > > processor resources and save power. Noise reduction and speech recognition > > > are the examples of the workloads Intel(R) GNA deals with while its usage > > > is not limited to the two. > > > > How does this compare with the "nnpi" driver being proposed here: > > https://lore.kernel.org/r/20210513085725.45528-1-guy.zadicario@intel.com > > > > Please work with those developers to share code and userspace api and > > tools. Having the community review two totally different apis and > > drivers for the same type of functionality from the same company is > > totally wasteful of our time and energy. > > Agreed, but I think we should go further than this and work towards a > subsystem across companies for machine learning and neural networks > accelerators for both inferencing and training. We have, it's called drivers/gpu. Feel free to rename to drivers/xpu or think G as in General, not Graphisc. > We have support for Intel habanalabs hardware in drivers/misc, and there are > countless hardware solutions out of tree that would hopefully go the same > way with an upstream submission and open source user space, including > > - Intel/Mobileye EyeQ > - Intel/Movidius Keembay > - Nvidia NVDLA > - Gyrfalcon Lightspeeur > - Apple Neural Engine > - Google TPU > - Arm Ethos > > plus many more that are somewhat less likely to gain fully open source > driver stacks. We also had this entire discussion 2 years ago with habanalabs. The hang-up is that drivers/gpu folks require fully open source userspace, including compiler and anything else you need to actually use the chip. Greg doesn't, he's happy if all he has is the runtime library with some tests. These two drivers here look a lot more like classic gpus than habanalabs did, at least from a quick look they operate with explicit buffer allocations/registration model. So even more reasons to just reuse all the stuff we have already. But also I don't expect these drivers here to come with open compilers, they never do, not initially at least before you started talking with the vendor. Hence I expect there'll be more drivers/totally-not-drm acceleration subsystem nonsense. Anyway this horse has been throughroughly beaten to death and more, the agreement is that accel drivers in drivers/misc must not use any gpu stuff, so that drivers/gpu people dont end up in a prickly situation they never signed up for. E.g. I removed some code sharing from habanalabs. This means interop between gpu and nn/ai drivers will be no-go until this is resolved, but *shrug*. Cheers, Daniel -- Daniel Vetter Software Engineer, Intel Corporation http://blog.ffwll.ch